If you fine people would be so kind... First ever attempt with these. I had deadlifted "heavy" the day before (315# x5r x 2s, 295 x 5, and a bunch of high bar squats), so this was just trying out the movement. Really felt it on the adductors. I plan on incorporating sumo pulls later on as an assistance movement, from a 1.5" deficit or so to hit the quadz. Figured I should learn how to do the movement without a deficit first.
Set 2/3
Set 3/3
Set 1 not shown...it got interrupted by my 2 yr old - I used hook grip though.
What’s the reason behind the switch? Are you having trouble setting your back conventional, want to see if you can Paul more this way, or just trying it out?
Like Mgil pointed out your are essentially doing a conventional deadlift with your feet outside your hands. That’s fine, its still a good way to pull and it can help you open the hips a bit more and set your back, if that’s the goal.
If you want to try sumo sumo I’d recommend standing a little wider, point your feet out more, keep your torso vertical and push your hips closer to the bar. This is going to put a lot of “work” on your groin muscles and will feel really weird at first.
Thanks @simonrest - I've always had problems setting my back conventional. About 2 years lifting now? But I'd like to think I've got the back thing more or less figured out. I used to pull basically using SLDL mechanics (what I'm trying to say, is I used all back). I have since learned to really feel it on my quads (for the beginning of the pull).
I have "poor leverages" for conventional (your typical T-Rex, built more for squats and bench). Just trying sumo out. Current thought pattern was to use sumo as an assistance movement, as described in my original post (with a small deficit, to hit the quads and adductors). Definitely felt it on the adductors this time, which was weird but definitely not a deal breaker.
I'm more of a general strength trainee, no competitions under my belt or anything like that. Just enjoying my garage gym.
Conventional pulls video (if it's helpful):
(First set of 5 at 315#, from the day prior to the sumo pulls.)
@EstebanBrazoFuerte, sumo might be better for your leverages. However, when you’re setting up for conventional, your shins are too close to the bar and you aren’t getting your hips low enough as a result.
Alan Thrall has a good video reviewing the steps and incorporates some smart hints from @Austin.
Using sumo as an assistance lift is a good idea, imo.
Yeah, that's the feedback I got from Andy Baker as well. I have problems getting the hips low enough. I'm familiar with the starting strength 5 step set up. Guess I just suck at actually doing it. As you noted, in particular, setting up too close to the bar.
Well dammit, now I have more homework to do. (Thanks again )
So, I think I can fix the setting-up-too-close-to-the-bar problem pretty easily.
Dr. Baraki's tip for belly-laden folks to look to the side instead of straight down seems to take care of the problem (I'm cutting using the to be a beast macros, down 20# and 4 inches off the belly in about 6 months, slow and steady.....).
At first I wanted to over compensate by putting the bar too far forward over the toes / forefoot. That lead to another common problem mentioned in the Dr. Baraki / Alan Thrall video, (this one: where the bar travels around the knees. So my understanding is that the fix for that problem is to leg press the floor away / keep the shoulders over the bar as long as possible.
That's where I think I'm screwing up now. Having trouble keeping my shoulders over the bar?? It makes sense but when I go to do it I feel like I'm screwing something up. I feel myself hitting the knees on the way up. So I assume I'm opening the hips too soon??
This is making a lot of damn sense. I never realized I was setting up too close, or, more precisely, why I was doing it. I was aware of the belly problem but for whatever reason, when putting this all into practice, I wasn't able to self-diagnose the problem.
The biggest thing from this discussion is that I don't feel the lower back being stressed nearly as much. Pulling incorrectly for about a year caused a lumbar "tweak" eventually that took me out of commission (no lifting) for about 6 months. I couldn't even air squat without popping it / getting pain. McKenzie press-ups helped a ton, and learning to put my low back in extension. Anyways, that's pretty much over with now. And staying over the bar like this / setting up with the bar the correct distance from the shins feels much better on my back.
Anyhow - Really glad I posted. Thanks so much for y'all's input.It's exciting as hell to think I could actually deadlift properly for once. I am a bit thick-headed here.
Here’s why form checks can be useful: often times we know something is wrong, like lower back extension, and we stare at our back in the playback trying to will it to be better with tunnel vision. Someone else comes along, who isn’t feeling fatigue in their low back and pissed off about it looks at the video and says, “yeah, he’s too close” and that can solve it.
It’s like knee slide. A lot of form feedback is “get your knees set” and “hip drive” but the number one problem is torso rigidity on the descent.
Anyhow, sumo is a solid assistance to take some stress off the lower back and build more strength in the hips. Dan Green uses both. I think he’s pulled 900 either way. They compliment each other well.
OK, so, just to make sure - I guess the hitting my knees problem isn't that big a deal? Or maybe it just "feels" off, but who cares (because I'm on the right track)?
Really, really appreciate it. Look at me, I actually want to deadlift now. LA FUERZA DEL EXODO.
EstebanBrazoFuerte wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:26 am
Thanks!! Well, this is encouraging.
OK, so, just to make sure - I guess the hitting my knees problem isn't that big a deal? Or maybe it just "feels" off, but who cares (because I'm on the right track)?
Really, really appreciate it. Look at me, I actually want to deadlift now. LA FUERZA DEL EXODO.
You’ll want to get the knees out of the way, yeah. The leg press cue should help, since you’ll want to break the bar off the floor with quads in the mix.
- I used hook grip though.
