Rule Clarification

[Murelli]

A few thoughts.

1. The level of shit-posting in the "upstairs" sections was sufficient for at least one member to cease posting recently. Given this, we wanted to make it clear that shit-posting upstairs is not accepted. All moderators had input on the recent rules update. We had some solid discussion about language and intent, and several modifications were made prior to posting.

I don't read all the threads, but I didn't see all this shitposting "upstairs".

Anyway, I just hope that this forum doesn't sway towards a "politeness dictatorship".

[quark]

Are there mods not listed in memberlist.php?mode=team ? If so, please list them there.

[Manveer]

I didn’t give input on these recent rules as I was occupied basically all of last week, but I’ve suggested some revisions based on the feedback here and my own observations.

I don’t know what went down with Niki’s post being deleted because there’s no screenshot available. I have only deleted 2-3 posts for rules violations, and I’ve contacted the users about them. Usually I will bounce a screenshot off the moderator team to get concurrence for deletion.

I want to see this site succeed, but right now I am pretty swamped with moving and work so I can’t devote that much time to it.

[quark]

Does the forum software allow you to make posts readable only by moderators (either directly or by moving to a moderator forum)? If so, that's better than just deleting it, as moderators can review things, they could undelete if appropriate and they can notice patterns (e.g., some types of posts are a problem, so they can point this out).

[SeanHerbison]

So long as I can continue to post (ir)relevant cat pictures, I'm not too worried.

[cgeorg]

Can't...stop...watching

[Wilhelm]

"I want to see this site succeed..." ~ Manveer
Heartily agree.

I don't think the current kerfuffle threatens the site, as there appears to be a degree of openness regarding it.
At least for those people nearer the middle than the ends of the spectrum.

Things do change. I can't really keep up with each and every log anymore.
Midly bummed about that, but i'm glad to have been here when it was super cozy.
I trust Exodus will continue to be a nice home for me.
Hopefully the people most in oppositioon can find a way to understand each other, and maybe even accomodate each other.

[Manveer]

I don’t know what went down with Niki’s post being deleted because there’s no screenshot available. I have only deleted 2-3 posts for rules violations, and I’ve contacted the users about them. Usually I will bounce a screenshot off the moderator team to get concurrence for deletion.

There is a screenshot available. Do you want me to send it to you?

Ok.

[Igor]

As far as not knowing who is a mod I'd suggest having their nicknames colored distinctively.

[tersh]

I appreciate the concern, @tersh because I definitely don't want for things to get messy. However, I don't want to set up a system that anticipates that happening. I want to think of the rules more as a guideline, rather than a "just in case someone tries something funny" sort of deal. It doesn't matter how detailed and exhaustive the rules are, if someone really wanted to they'd always find loopholes. Take a look at lawyers.

Mods aren't the police here just to enforce the rules, they're also here to, well, moderate--which means some things will be left to their discretion. I'm fine with that. I'm sure everyone understands that no one has the time or energy to examine every potential infraction on a case by case basis and deliberate over it before taking a course of action.

That's fair, and I understand that as a philosophical position.

[cgeorg]

Things do change. I can't really keep up with each and every log anymore.
Mildly bummed about that, but i'm glad to have been here when it was super cozy.

Same. Maybe if we can get enough people band it can be like the good ol' days? MESGA

[d0uevenlift]

Kyle is right to voice his criticism and turning that down because some people have made turning him down into a game does not change that. He makes a solid point. And when tersh asked for a clarification, he also did not mean to stirr anything up. I read the rules yesterday and forgot about them again. I can’t see them being relevant before someone gets into trouble for them being enforced. Or abused. Maybe we should stop acting like this forum has turned into EnP or /pol, when we in fact have a pretty good community going. The rules seem to be based on hyperbole, apart from simply not being cogent.

So far, the rules have not been enforced consistently, thus the questions (and questioning). And you guys said, exactly like stef. did, that it’s a silly comparison to point out posts from before yesterday. That’s a nice cop out, but then don’t tell people to report things?! I doubt if I reported posts that anything but me, and not the offender, getting a warning would come from it. And I have not reported posts which called me a cunt (yes, here and not on SS) or a retard. So why would I be playing spam police? If I have an issue, I talk to the member, not to an overseeer. Especially when the rules are being applied by whoever to whoever, as it seems.

This is why I said we are creating non issues.

How does @KyleSchuant make any solid point? He's asking why "no racist slurs" are in the rules because no one has ever done them before? And why would that even be a rule if no one here will likely do it? Give me a fucking break. The rules don't exist just for the current members of this forum, but for future ones, too.

[Allentown]

I worry about the ban on slurs. I think I know what you have in mind, but there are people playing the oppression olympics at the highest levels around here. Given the euphemism treadmill, today's perfectly acceptable label is tomorrow's offensive term. Negative associations build up with the label and then it rejected for something new: crippled -> handicap -> disabled -> differently abled (or whatever).

The intersectional totalitarian alt-left loves to play language policing games. It allows them to feel morally superior and to show everyone just how sensitive they are to oppression. They see perfectly acceptable terms as slurs. . . .

Is "tranny" now a slur? It was a perfectly acceptable label just recently. RuPaul has a song called "Tranny Chaser". . . "Shemale" seems to have fallen out of favor. RuPaul used to have a segment on Drag Race called "You Got Shemail". But this label suddenly became offensive too. I can't keep up with all this nonsense.

The slur ban needs to exclude the latest fashions in offense. I'm not sure how to formulate that rule. Perhaps there should just be fewer rules in general, since they are hard to spell out clearly and they risk forbidding anything that anyone could find offensive, however unreasonable.

How about:
"Talk like you are at a with casual acquaintances at a local food joint/bar that tends to get some families with kids <10yo"

[iamsmu]

How about:
"Talk like you are at a with casual acquaintances at a local food joint/bar that tends to get some families with kids <10yo"

Fuck that noise! That's sounds just awful. I don't have kids and don't like to be around them very much. This is one of the reasons. Others include but are not limited to: they are irritating and they make you watch really shitty TV. Sometimes I think they are cute on Instagram. The kid doing the leg raises on the rack with chains was sort of heart warming. But that's about the extent. If I could rent one around Christmas and buy it presents, I'd consider it. But it would have to leave before the new year. . . . I thought about a dog rental business for a while, but the insurance would eat up all the profits. One dog bites some customer or whatever and I'd have to send all the hounds to the pound. . . .

[augeleven]

If I could rent one around Christmas and buy it presents, I'd consider it.

Again, why pay money to rent a child when most parents would pay you to take them (for a finite and well defined amount of time)?

Also: on the topic of shitposting "upstairs": I would miss the humor/diversion that the occasional off-topic joke or weird mid-thread ideological ramble/rant provides. Perhaps these comments could also have on-topic portions?
Not as a rule, but as a best-practice kind of thing.

[d0uevenlift]

How does @KyleSchuant make any solid point? He's asking why "no racist slurs" are in the rules because no one has ever done them before? And why would that even be a rule if no one here will likely do it? Give me a fucking break. The rules don't exist just for the current members of this forum, but for future ones, too.

He asked how a banned user can PM a mod for discussion if banned users cannot send PMs. And that making another account to send a PM is also against the rules. For example.

People will get a warning before being banned and can discuss it with a mod then. I only made an exception to this rule once, even though people disagreed, yet that member was permanently banned again. Not by me.

[mgil]

An attempt at a revision...

Exceptions to rules:

While it is understood that in one certain forum, i.e. “Shitposting”, there will be some insults flung back and forth, excessive harassment or insult is unwarranted. If a post is truly offensive or contains inappropriate (excessive gore, porn, etc.), it needs to be reported, as mods cannot be on call at all times. Since the forum at hand is also limited access, insulting other forum members behind their backs where they are unaware is improper and will be dealt with via warnings and removal from the access group. Basically, being an asshole in the Shitposting forum is acceptable, so long as you're a well-intentioned asshole that is a good community member outside of that forum and can handle reciprocity.

Please quote/tag me as needed with comments and feedback.

Thank you!

[chromoly]

To those of you who were wondering who are mods and who isn't... if you refresh the main forum site, you'll see each forum has one moderator (or more) listed there. A few things:

We mods, with the exception of fishwife, can delete posts and etc. in any forum, not just the ones we are listed as moderating.

That said... I have other shit to do. Even though I can, I don't typically go around deleting stuff in other forums, e.g. Food and Nutrition, Rules and Such. Sometimes we might, but I don't think anyone really goes and deletes things willy nilly just for funzies, because we all have limited time and resources.

I'm just going to leave this as a reminder:

We started this forum as a group of passionate barbell trainees who lead busy lives outside of managing this place. We started it with money out of our own pockets, then with donations from a number of generous forum members. Because we don't have the time or resources to make sure everything here is fair, reasonable, or even legal, we have to create these blanket rules.

These rules hardly affect the majority of folks that post here. In essence, these rules can be summed up as "Don't be a jerk," which was in our original set of rules.

Use common sense and don't over analyze the rules and try to come up with scenarios that may or may not happen and whether it would constitute breaking the rules.

The one thing to remember here is that this is community driven. Some of you are still burning from what happened on the Starting Strength forums, but guess what? We aren't Starting Strength, thank god. We don't have a business to protect and we aren't going to censor people who disagree with us or others on this forum.

[BenM]

What I think everyone needs to remember is that rules are as much a statement of intent as anything else. They cannot and will not be able to cover every single specific situation and shouldn't attempt to do so. I WISH that it was possible to just say 'don't be a dick' and leave it at that but the problem is that one person's dick is another person's harmless class clown. Phrasing.

My point being, all this 'what is a racist/sexist slur' etc is entirely open to moderator's interpretation and I think that we should have just a LITTLE bit of faith that the good guys and gals here have the ability to identify what's what. And you know what? If you are about to post something that might be considered to be such, then perhaps you should take a little bit of time to think about what you're posting and try to avoid misinterpretation? If everyone did that then the rules will have served their purpose.

[mgil]

Small update made.