GM squats, balance and quad strength

[simonrest]

@quark thanks for the RTS video. I liked how he spoke about the 80% rule, and her squats (which look like my squats when I fatigue) still being over that 80% and so just focus on getting stronger.

[Wilhelm]

Just some more stuff for the pile -

[asd]

About GMing your squats

(1) this was a bigger issue with Rip, he used to recommend people do this it seemed, it got out of control, you could tell at the gym who was doing starting strength because of the GM-squats. Then Rip backtracked and said it was just a teaching heuristic, and if this happens you have to remain more midfoot. I could be confabulating this, but it seems like this is the history.

(2) I think front squats are the way to go even more than high bar squats. You learn the exact movement pattern that is a correction. It spans something that high bar back squats just don't. You have to maintain an upright torso or the bar will dump. You could do barbell hacksquats too. That is an underrated exercise.

[Hanley]

(2) I think front squats are the way to go even more than high bar squats. You learn the exact movement pattern that is a correction. It spans something that high bar back squats just don't. You have to maintain an upright torso or the bar will dump.

yup

[damufunman]

barbell hack squats

Must be a @Hanley thing

[asd]

@Hanley do you do barbell hacksquat? I did not know. I remember you did lots of snatch grip deadifts and ...nothing else.

@damufunman How long did you try them for? It's a weird movement. J/w not a lot of people I know who've done them, but some strong ppl : )

[Hanley]

@Hanley do you do barbell hacksquat? I did not know. I remember you did lots of snatch grip deadifts and ...nothing else.

Never done a hack squat.

[mbasic]

You could do barbell hacksquats too. That is an underrated exercise.

I don't think I've ever seen a good barbell hack squat with decent weight performed with good thoracic extension.....not one.

[asd]

Exactly, you have to push your knees forward all of the way. You also need more than a weightlifting shoe, like you need more under your heel. You might have to have the right shape body though I guess.

[damufunman]

@Hanley do you do barbell hacksquat? I did not know. I remember you did lots of snatch grip deadifts and ...nothing else.

@damufunman How long did you try them for? It's a weird movement. J/w not a lot of people I know who've done them, but some strong ppl : )

Man, no one's getting my jokes today. :sad face:

Barbell hacks = Hanley ('s business? or just interests?)

[chrisd]

@Hanley do you do barbell hacksquat? I did not know. I remember you did lots of snatch grip deadifts and ...nothing else.

Never done a hack squat.

What, never ??

They save on squat racks and if you fail, they stay on the floor. So much better than the regular squat, which I seem to recall some sage describing as futile ("You start with a weight suspended in the air, support it and then try to bounce back up to leave it suspended agin"). the hack squat is truly functional for when you have to pick up a heavy weight that is behind you. They are also great ego crushers for people who can lift well.

[Hanley]

squat

"You start with a weight suspended in the air, support it and then try to bounce back up to leave it suspended again"

I struggle to think of a more absurd human endeavor than squatting.

Also: the hack squat looks a little funny

[fishwife]

Does Rip actually recommend this?

No.

[mgil]

Can we find out who coined the “point your nipples at the floor” cue and put them in time out for a bit?

[SeanHerbison]

Can we find out who coined the “point your nipples at the floor” cue and put them in time out for a bit?

You know, you say that, but I've actually used that on a couple very stubborn people who just would not lean over at all, and it produced the results I wanted. So I'm keeping it in my toolbox, even if it's not a tool I'd use often.

Though to be fair, I usually say "chest", not "nipples".

[mgil]

Can we find out who coined the “point your nipples at the floor” cue and put them in time out for a bit?

You know, you say that, but I've actually used that on a couple very stubborn people who just would not lean over at all, and it produced the results I wanted. So I'm keeping it in my toolbox, even if it's not a tool I'd use often.

Though to be fair, I usually say "chest", not "nipples".

The word “nipples” is precisely the problem.

Most people aren’t aware of which direction their nipples are pointing. Further, with the lady folk, there are women (independent of age) that have upward pointing nipples and some that point right at the ground while standing erect. Then there is a pendulous mass involved that reorients this relationship on the fly.

Then the idea that promoting this cue as something to use with the general public where someone might feel self conscious (and you’ve possibly stumbled upon a person who has undergone a double mastectomy and they are doing barbell stuff to get stronger) just seems blatantly stupid when “chest” suffices.

[fishwife]

Can we find out who coined the “point your nipples at the floor” cue and put them in time out for a bit?

Yeah, this is a terrible cue. It encourages thoracic flexion in a movement that doesn't want it at all.

I'm not saying it will never work for anyone--people are pretty varied after all--but I certainly wouldn't put this high on my list.

[platypus]

"Point your nipples at the floor" was a particularly helpful cue for me when I was learning to squat properly. If I think about it now, I GM my squat. But at one point it was exactly what I needed to hear. I had a training partner a while back who really needed it, and all I could think of to tell him was, "lean forward more." That didn't work.

I taught a coworker to squat recently, and to avoid awkwardness I said "point your chest at the floor" like Sean Herbison mentioned. That worked just fine for her.

[KyleSchuant]

"Point your nipples at the floor" was a particularly helpful cue for me when I was learning to squat properly. If I think about it now, I GM my squat.

Along with the exaggerated hip drive, the cue tends to lead to that, yes. Hunching over, knee slide, etc. So the coach creates a problem and later congratulates themselves for solving it.

Simply getting them to look at a particular point on the floor, closer if they're longer-legged and further if they're shorter-legged, and past the novice phase rotating in things like front squats and rack squats, this works better.

I also say "chest." I'm not interested in either me or my lifter thinking about their nipples during a training session.

[Murelli]

As KOTJ would say, cues are individual.

I'll have to quote myself after all this cue discussion. Nipples, chest, taint, crotch, chin, hips, whatever: cues are only as good as the their effect on the lifter and in the coach-lifter relationship. And as in any relationship, communication is key.