Exodus Strength

@DoctorWho sumo needs lateral support from the shoe. Shoes like what @Cody posted are beneficial. For conventional pulling, you can get away with slippers.

I pull conventional. When I'm training 5's, I use my squat shoes.

For 3's, I may put on my Sabo Goodlifts which have a flat sole. I pulled my competition deadlift PR in these shoes since socks weren't an option.

Heavy training singles I go in socks, or in competition, I'll now use me new Metal deadlift slippers.

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:51 pm The idea that flats should improve my DL (which I thought it would) hasn't worked for me. Don't fully understand it, but I'd take @mgil's advice on the programming.

I do not feel comfortable lifting in socks. No real reason but I think there's something in my brain afraid of dropping the weight on my foot. Not that the shoes I'm wearing would provide any real protection if I did. Just a mental block. I also don't like to drive barefoot.

I got the Sabo DL shoes. The uppers are literally the cheapest looking and feeling shoes I've ever owned. They aren't comfortable for walking around (neither are my Inov8 squat shoes) but they are better for deadlifting than what I was wearing before. I assume they will hold up OK because they will be getting very light wear.

I can no longer blame my DL struggles on shoes. I am finding it hard not to have my back rounding as the weights get heavier. I took some weight off the bar to practice form, and I'm going to try for 3 sets of 3 once a week, and that will be on a day I'm not squatting.

laikabear wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:03 pm I am finding it hard not to have my back rounding as the weights get heavier. I took some weight off the bar to practice form, and I'm going to try for 3 sets of 3 once a week, and that will be on a day I'm not squatting.

It's hard to tell from a static angle video, but it looks like you might be a touch narrow. Next deadlift try to angle your toes out a bit and as you descend to start the pull drive your knees out into your elbows. This might open up your hips and help you set your back better.

simonrest wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:30 am It's hard to tell from a static angle video, but it looks like you might be a touch narrow. Next deadlift try to angle your toes out a bit and as you descend to start the pull drive your knees out into your elbows. This might open up your hips and help you set your back better.

Thanks for the tip! I am going to be deadlifting in the AM so I'll try this.

There's a lot of confusion about deadlifting in heels:

1) The problem is not the heel angle, is the total sole height (insole+outsole). A sole is a deficit, so it should be as small as it can be;
2) Some shoes may be soles bigger than a weightlifting shoes. I'm wearing Vans right now and they are almost as thick as my Sabo Weighlifts;
3) You need support. Whether it's Chuck Taylors, slippers, Sabo Deadlift/Goodlift, indoor soccer shoes, you need something that helps your foot not colapse. Most insoles are flexible, so taking them out is usually a must;
4) If you are doing sumo, you need lateral support too. There's a thing people call "foot rolling out" that happens in sumo, due to the lateral component of the load that is simply not there on most conventional deadlifts. The old Reebok Power Shoe was great for this from what I've heard, and usually people say this is the disadvantage of wrestling shoes.

Murelli wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:20 am There's a lot of confusion about deadlifting in heels:

1) The problem is not the heel angle, is the total sole height (insole+outsole). A sole is a deficit, so it should be as small as it can be;
2) Some shoes may be soles bigger than a weightlifting shoes. I'm wearing Vans right now and they are almost as thick as my Sabo Weighlifts;
3) You need support. Whether it's Chuck Taylors, slippers, Sabo Deadlift/Goodlift, indoor soccer shoes, you need something that helps your foot not colapse. Most insoles are flexible, so taking them out is usually a must;
4) If you are doing sumo, you need lateral support too. There's a thing people call "foot rolling out" that happens in sumo, due to the lateral component of the load that is simply not there on most conventional deadlifts. The old Reebok Power Shoe was great for this from what I've heard, and usually people say this is the disadvantage of wrestling shoes.

Thanks, @mgil. Seems obvious now that I read it.

Murelli, question about insole and outsole height (or average). A 3/4" deficit should have a big effect on a lift, but a 1/4 deficit much less effect -- arguably the height of thin DL shoes. So it's complicated -- right?

DoctorWho wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:11 pm

Murelli wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:20 am There's a lot of confusion about deadlifting in heels:

1) The problem is not the heel angle, is the total sole height (insole+outsole). A sole is a deficit, so it should be as small as it can be;
2) Some shoes may be soles bigger than a weightlifting shoes. I'm wearing Vans right now and they are almost as thick as my Sabo Weighlifts;
3) You need support. Whether it's Chuck Taylors, slippers, Sabo Deadlift/Goodlift, indoor soccer shoes, you need something that helps your foot not colapse. Most insoles are flexible, so taking them out is usually a must;
4) If you are doing sumo, you need lateral support too. There's a thing people call "foot rolling out" that happens in sumo, due to the lateral component of the load that is simply not there on most conventional deadlifts. The old Reebok Power Shoe was great for this from what I've heard, and usually people say this is the disadvantage of wrestling shoes.

Thanks, @mgil. Seems obvious now that I read it.

Murelli, question about insole and outsole height (or average). A 3/4" deficit should have a big effect on a lift, but a 1/4 deficit much less effect -- arguably the height of thin DL shoes. So it's complicated -- right?

Yes, the total heel height of a Sabo Weightlift is 24,5 mm:


That's a 24,5mm (almost 1") deficit deadlift.

The total heel height of a Sabo Goodlift, sans insole, is 5mm. That's a 5mm deficit deadlift. Chuck Taylors sans insole are 7mm (1/4"?).

Heel vs. platform only changes the angle of the foot, probably changing how the shin muscles get involved, which, let's face it, doesn't affect the deadlift the slightest. Total height from the floor to lockout is the variable here.

You can always take the insole out.

Currently lifting in my holy Vans for now, will probably be switching to Chucks soon as my pinky toe is begining to emerge through the canvas.

VANS > everything else.

Murelli wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:58 am Heel vs. platform only changes the angle of the foot, probably changing how the shin muscles get involved, which, let's face it, doesn't affect the deadlift the slightest. Total height from the floor to lockout is the variable here.

Have thought about this in the past, but in relation to squatting. With low bar you generally aren't going deep enough for the foot inclination to make in difference in hitting depth or not, so I don't quite understand the argument of shoe heel height making you squat more upright/quads/whatevs.

damufunman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:24 am

Murelli wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:58 am Heel vs. platform only changes the angle of the foot, probably changing how the shin muscles get involved, which, let's face it, doesn't affect the deadlift the slightest. Total height from the floor to lockout is the variable here.

Have thought about this in the past, but in relation to squatting. With low bar you generally aren't going deep enough for the foot inclination to make in difference in hitting depth or not, so I don't quite understand the argument of shoe heel height making you squat more upright/quads/whatevs.

Midfoot moves backward, so more knee flexion, less hip flexion = more quads, same hips (technically, shut up). The same thing doesn't hold true to deadlifts because the mechanicas are reverse, resulting in less knee flexion, more hip flexion = less quads, less hips (because of lower back limit) + increased ROM = less weight moved through an ineffective ROM.

Murelli wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:03 am

damufunman wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:24 am

Murelli wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:58 am Heel vs. platform only changes the angle of the foot, probably changing how the shin muscles get involved, which, let's face it, doesn't affect the deadlift the slightest. Total height from the floor to lockout is the variable here.

Have thought about this in the past, but in relation to squatting. With low bar you generally aren't going deep enough for the foot inclination to make in difference in hitting depth or not, so I don't quite understand the argument of shoe heel height making you squat more upright/quads/whatevs.

Midfoot moves backward, so more knee flexion, less hip flexion = more quads, same hips (technically, shut up). The same thing doesn't hold true to deadlifts because the mechanicas are reverse, resulting in less knee flexion, more hip flexion = less quads, less hips (because of lower back limit) + increased ROM = less weight moved through an ineffective ROM.

Ok, so for 1" rise in heel for a (roughly) footlong foot, you'll get approximately .05" shift in midfoot location, gotcha.

FWIW I just bought some adidas leistung 16 ii, which have around a 1inch heel height, compared to my current shoes which are probably 0.5-0.75.

The thing that I have noticed is that I get me knees fwd quicker rather than their eventual position being further forward.

I'm guessing the latter would only happen if ankle mobility was restricting how far the knee could be pushed forward (but I could be wrong).

In anycase, as a long legged lifter, they have certainly helped but perhaps not exactly how I thought they would. They are also an awesome shoe, thanks @JordanFeigenbaum for the write up on the SS forum.

TLDR; will my deadlift magically go up if I deadlift barefoot instead of in my Do-Wins?

AaronM wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 am TLDR; will my deadlift magically go up if I deadlift barefoot instead of in my Do-Wins?

Actually, yeah, probably a little. It's like doing a pull from whatever thickness your sole is blocks.

cgeorg wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:28 am

AaronM wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 am TLDR; will my deadlift magically go up if I deadlift barefoot instead of in my Do-Wins?

Actually, yeah, probably a little. It's like doing a pull from whatever thickness your sole is blocks.

Hmmm, so maybe I should've been logging my deadlifts as 1" deficits

Still pulling in Romaleo 2's after having tried both heels vs flats, but considering trying out flat shoes again if I can find a pair that I really like. There's a narrower margin of error for bar placement/staying over the midfoot, but I like the stability of the shoe itself.

ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:31 pm Still pulling in Romaleo 2's after having tried both heels vs flats, but considering trying out flat shoes again if I can find a pair that I really like. There's a narrower margin of error for bar placement/staying over the midfoot, but I like the stability of the shoe itself.

If you have the monies you could get a Sabo Goodlift.

ChasingCurls69 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:31 pmI like the stability of the shoe itself.

Conventional deadlifts just don't have any real "stability" requirements from your shoes... I have deadlifted in weightlifting shoes, weightlifting shoes with the heel removed, throwing shoes, chucks, 5-fingers, and flip flops.

I've pulled as much in flip flops as I have in any other foot wear.