Global Warming Thread

[Allentown]

Like I said earlier, I'm greener than most of you. What are you going to do about high CO2 anyway? What are any of you doing about it that's going to make a difference. crickets...

100% irrelevant to the discussion.

[JonA]

What are you going to do about high CO2 anyway? What are any of you doing about it that's going to make a difference.

Kill people

Effectively

Efficiently

Every Day

[CtMcBride]

Like I said earlier, I'm greener than most of you. What are you going to do about high CO2 anyway? What are any of you doing about it that's going to make a difference. crickets...

I'm gonna move off the grid, generate electricity with a water wheel, then go online to deny climate change and challenge anyone who questions my inane and incorrect assertions by asking if they are doing more to reduce their carbon footprint.

Any previous threads I stated my solution. Investment in nuclear, wind, and solar technology. Nuclear plants and wind farms could go in now. Investment in solar would push several generations of advancement through quickly so that in 5 to 10 years solar power on rooftops powering neighborhoods would be economically feasible. Imagine if this had been done in 2000. Imagine if the two bailouts for the financial industry in 2008 had funded this. Where would we be now in terms of energy independence and green energy? But nope. We got deniers pointing out that winter happens in Sweden so can't spend any money on that.

I asked what you in particular are doing which appears to be nothing.

Your solution is big gov't? You'd like China!

I was in the power generation business for 20+ years. There is a reason why private industry hasn't invested more in those technologies besides what is already subsidized. You know how many bats and birds windmills and directed energy solar kill? It was a real PR and environmental issue with the farms my company owned. Nuclear is great if you don't worry about the nuclear waste cooking off and extinguishing life on earth sometime in the next millennia if not kept cool. No insurance company will touch a nuclear plant to my knowledge. They are all gov't backed and subsidized. Maybe Thorium is a solution at some point in the future.

Solar and wind are intermittent and end up costing the end consumers double, because the utilities have to build redundant power. They are only built today due to large subsidies and to make gullibles like you feel good. Until reliable and cost effective MW-sized energy storage solutions can be found they do more harm than good.

Wow. You are a bigger moron than I thought. And that is saying a lot.

Nice ad hominen. Spineless, moron, weirdo; I've been called or insinuated a few things so far by you and others. Sorry I triggered you...

You've mentioned ad hominem a couple of times, so maybe you should go look it up. Since you won't, it's a logical fallacy whereby someone says "your arguments are bad because you're a moron."

Aurelius seems to be saying that you're clearly a moron because you're arguments are so bad. Not the same thing.

[JonA]

You've mentioned ad hominem a couple of times, so maybe you should go look it up. Since you won't, it's a logical fallacy whereby someone says "your arguments are bad because you're a moron."

Aurelius seems to be saying that you're clearly a moron because you're arguments are so bad. Not the same thing.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. Disposal of nuclear waste and storage of solar/wind power for off hours are very real and very difficult problems. Dismissing his arguments around those issues because you think he is a moron is pretty much the very definition of ad hominem.

[CtMcBride]

Yeah, I'm not trying to weigh in on the validity of the arguments. Just looking at the context and the phrasing Aurelius used, he pretty clearly said (paraphrasing): those are really dumb arguments, so you must be a bigger moron than i thought.

Name calling =/= ad hominem. Dismissing someone because you think their arguments are dumb =/= ad hominem. Dismissing the arguments because you think the person is an idiot is ad hominem.

I'm just tired of people upset about name-calling trying to pretend they're being ad hominemed. In this case, at least earlier in the thread, skid's ideas were addressed on their merits and he showed a clear refusal to consider actual evidence and posted articles from some nonsense websites as "evidence" supporting his positions. That seems moronic to me. Holds contrarian, antiscience ideas -> supports them with unsubstantiated bullshit from internet -> kind of dumb. That's a lot different than: I think you're dumb/ say you're dumb -> therefore your ideas are wrong.

Edit:
In case the above rambling wasn't clear.

]
Dismissing his arguments around those issues because you think he is a moron

I'm trying to say I don't think this is what's happening. He's being labeled a moron because of dumb ideas.

[cwd]

At this point, we've missed the boat for reducing CO2 emissions quickly enough to head off major climate change. It's happening, and much more is queued up and inevitable.

* Short of a world dictatorship (which would be *worse* than global warming), we can't get people to stop wanting to travel freely, heat/cool their houses, and have lights and television and internet in their homes. We are going to keep consuming more and more power.
* Solar and wind power are small potatoes. They help a little, but cannot get us there.
* Nuclear scales adequately, but it's too slow to get plants approved and built. Maybe this could be improved if public opinion changes.

I'm not even worried about the drowning cities. I'm worried about genocide.

If we just let the global warming continue unchecked, it will lead to mass migrations of populations leaving places that have become too hot or dry to farm. They will pile up along national borders. I expect billions in refugee camps, horrible wars, and genocides.

My best hope at this point is CO2 sequestration. I.e. trapping the CO2 at the smokestacks, and actively pulling it from the atmosphere elsewhere with biochar and ocean fertilization. Costly, but at least not impossible. Cheaper than mass warfare.

[Allentown]

My best hope at this point is CO2 sequestration. I.e. trapping the CO2 at the smokestacks, and actively pulling it from the atmosphere elsewhere with biochar and ocean fertilization. Costly, but at least not impossible. Cheaper than mass warfare.

Wasn't someone working on producing power from algae? Wouldn't it be cool to have some algae towers on the south side of the house pulling CO2 from inside and outside, and creating power and clean oxygen for inside?
I am probably dreaming.
Just move all the cows inside barns that scrub CO2 or have a bunch of hanging plants or something. Boom, reduced CO2 emissions. Just need to get over that pesky "treat animals nicely" thing. Dumb humans...

[broseph]

Wasn't someone working on producing power from algae? Wouldn't it be cool to have some algae towers on the south side of the house pulling CO2 from inside and outside, and creating power and clean oxygen for inside?
I am probably dreaming.

If we could engineer some kind of delicious nutritious algae strain... can you imagine the possibilities?

Power, food, and climate control all packaged into tasty green slime.

[Stenson]

tasty green slime.

slurm.jpg

[Stenson]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Not saying either of these are true...

[cgeorg]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Not saying either of these are true...

To push their crazy liberal agenda, obvs

[broseph]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Not saying either of these are true...

The government is always the scariest entity to these people.

Flip the food pyramid, throw away the vaccines, and cozy up to a nice warm planet.

[Stenson]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Not saying either of these are true...

The government is always the scariest entity to these people.

Flip the food pyramid, throw away the vaccines, and cozy up to a nice warm planet.

The vaccine thing is kind of odd though. As far as I can tell, it's mostly the hippie "all natural" types that avoid vaccines, which tend to be liberal. At least that's what I gather from my Facebook feed...all the anti vax people I know are uber liberal.

I think there's science denial on both sides of the aisle (heehee, I make a rhyme)

[DirtyRed]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Scare stupid people into gleefully surrendering more power to the ruling oligarchs to horde wealth actually generated by others and distribute it to their friends. Same fucking reason the government does pretty much everything.

[broseph]

The vaccine thing is kind of odd though. As far as I can tell, it's mostly the hippie "all natural" types that avoid vaccines, which tend to be liberal. At least that's what I gather from my Facebook feed...all the anti vax people I know are uber liberal.

Hmmm. I know some extreme right-wing-don't-take-er-jerbs anti-vaccers and some extreme don't-put-gender-on-birth-certificates anti vaccers.

I guess Big Pharma is evil enough to cross party lines.

[DirtyRed]

The vaccine thing is kind of odd though. As far as I can tell, it's mostly the hippie "all natural" types that avoid vaccines, which tend to be liberal. At least that's what I gather from my Facebook feed...all the anti vax people I know are uber liberal.

Hmmm. I know some extreme right-wing-don't-take-er-jerbs anti-vaccers and some extreme don't-put-gender-on-birth-certificates anti vaccers.

I guess human stupidity is pervasive enough to cross party lines.

Fixed.

And the flu vaccine is still largely a scam.

[quark]

One thing I've never understood about the "Global warming is a conspiracy!!1!" thing is...wouldn't it make more sense that the anti global warming people are the conspirators? "Big oil/coal pays off scientists to deny climate change" makes a lot more sense than "The gubbmint pays off scientists to say climate change is real". What would be the purpose of the latter?

Not saying either of these are true...

Yeah, the money and concentrated special interest is on the big coal/oil side.

Accusing the opposition of doing what you're doing has become a common tactic.

[aurelius]

Aurelius seems to be saying that you're clearly a moron because you're arguments are so bad. Not the same thing.

This ^

[aurelius]

Disposal of nuclear waste and storage of solar/wind power for off hours are very real and very difficult problems. Dismissing his arguments around those issues because you think he is a moron is pretty much the very definition of ad hominem.

I have decided Skid is a disingenuous moron based on his body of work in this thread. Myself and others have pointed out just how bad his arguments are. I'll add that human beings are complex. While Skid, IMO, has proven he is a moron on the subject of climate change; he may be very knowledgeable on other subjects. Lord knows I have been a moron once or twice on these very boards.

I'd argue that disposal of nuclear waste from modern nuclear reactors is a problem we'd like to have compared to seeing what happens as we increase the heat in our collective easy bake oven.

There are existing technological solutions for power storage that are already being implemented on large scales. Not to mention that reliable local storage of household power has been on the market for several years. Jesus, they even have cars that drive 200 plus miles on stored electrical power. To have one's head in the sand and pretend it is still 1985 in regards to power storage is ignorant or disingenuous. Providing money for more research and eliminate the substantial benefits oil and gas currently receive would push those technologies forward faster. There is an issue of rare earth materials used in the current generation storage solutions being...rare. So implementing on a global scale is problematic. Other viable technologies exist on the horizon.

Here is the Tesla power wall for homes. It can store up to 7 days of power (including air conditioner) in the case of an outage. It's recommended configuration for a 2,200 SF home costs $14,500.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

[strega]

The vaccine thing is kind of odd though. As far as I can tell, it's mostly the hippie "all natural" types that avoid vaccines, which tend to be liberal. At least that's what I gather from my Facebook feed...all the anti vax people I know are uber liberal.

I think there's science denial on both sides of the aisle (heehee, I make a rhyme)

My sister is anitvax she's neither liberal nor conservative, she's just old and believes stupid shit on the internet.
She also is the first one to post that you need to toss out all your lettuce.

People that post vaccine shit really piss me off.
Pretty sure that's why she defriend me for a few months

For the record I'm sort of "meh" on global warming, we have a population problem.
Global warming might be the most extreme symptom (for now) however the root cause is too many damn people.
Food safety, infrastructure, clean water, and a host of other issues can be traced back to too many rats in the cage.

As in John Calhoun’s Rat Utopia.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... 180954423/