Overnight MPS + stomach digests everything right?

[hackerhercules]

I've been trying to find anything on this dumbass idea but I can't find it, thought maybe you good folks might have had a similarly dumbass idea and were able to find what I wasn't.

If we assume the stomach digests and uses everything you put into it, sooner or later...
And MPS happens every 3 hours...

Why wouldn't we eat like 120g extra protein right before bed to sustain MPS overnight (assuming a 9 hour sleep and an MPS saturation around 40g protein)?

There's a few studies that show 40g protein right before bed (by way of whey) increases overnight MPS, so there's some validity this idea. I just feel like I'm missing something, and the only sources that say anything in support of this idea are all broscience other than one study from the Netherlands.

[quark]

I believe the idea is that you need a dose of leucine (3g or so), as part of complete protein, to trigger MPS and once triggered there's a three or four hour refractory period. A larger amount of protein does not sit there and trigger another round later. If you eat 120g of protein in one sitting, some goes to MPS and the rest is digested as calories.

My main source is @JordanFeigenbaum, who has some writings and podcast mentions about this. You might ask him on the BBM board.

[hackerhercules]

I believe the idea is that you need a dose of leucine (3g or so), as part of complete protein, to trigger MPS and once triggered there's a three or four hour refractory period. A larger amount of protein does not sit there and trigger another round later. If you eat 120g of protein in one sitting, some goes to MPS and the rest is digested as calories.

My main source is @JordanFeigenbaum, who has some writings and podcast mentions about this. You might ask him on the BBM board.

I was thinking the same thing re: BBM.

But I'm also aware of him, and other sources, explicitly mentioning that blood protein levels are more critical to MPS than being a freak about meal timing.

[mbasic]

Just throw this out there. . . .

Some people promote using casin protein over whey before bed because it is more slowly digested/utilized . . . so it "stretches out" thru the sleep period a bit more.

. . . so I've read

[TheCheat]

The casein thing is supposedly to reduce MPB, the other side of the bro-approved muscle gainzz equation.

[Murelli]

I thought the casein thing was debunked by a few studies that showed that blood amino acid concentration is sustained higher after eating whey than casein.

[TheCheat]

I thought the casein thing was debunked by a few studies that showed that blood amino acid concentration is sustained higher after eating whey than casein.

Seem to remember that those studies were done by infusing the proteins straight into the duodenum, thus bypassing the 'slower digesting' part of the process. Not saying there's anything to the casein before bed thing, but I remember being unconvinced by those particular studies.

[cwd]

Does a slower-digesting protein actually prolong the burst of protein synthesis from a meal? If not, the late-released protein just becomes calories.

There's a lot of research about benefits of fasting, that show various cellular-cleanup activities are triggered during periods of low blood sugar. Maybe we *want* our blood sugar to crater for a few hours each night. Maybe slow-digesting food at bedtime interferes with this.

Note: this is half-informed speculation. Not a serious theory supported by science.

[hackerhercules]

Does a slower-digesting protein actually prolong the burst of protein synthesis from a meal? If not, the late-released protein just becomes calories.

There's a lot of research about benefits of fasting, that show various cellular-cleanup activities are triggered during periods of low blood sugar. Maybe we *want* our blood sugar to crater for a few hours each night. Maybe slow-digesting food at bedtime interferes with this.

Note: this is half-informed speculation. Not a serious theory supported by science.

This could be getting closer to a good counterargument.

However straight protein has negligible effects on blood glucose levels.

[ChasingCurls69]

Does a slower-digesting protein actually prolong the burst of protein synthesis from a meal? If not, the late-released protein just becomes calories.

There's a lot of research about benefits of fasting, that show various cellular-cleanup activities are triggered during periods of low blood sugar. Maybe we *want* our blood sugar to crater for a few hours each night. Maybe slow-digesting food at bedtime interferes with this.

Note: this is half-informed speculation. Not a serious theory supported by science.

I could be wrong here, but I think the claim that "any protein not directly involved in boosting MPS is used as calories" is wrong and an oversimplification. There's MPS, and all the other bullshit amino acids that are available are used for before being converted to glucose and getting used for energy.

The amount of protein needed to maximize MPS is dependent on the dose of leucine in the given protein source, and the threshold is 3-5g. You may still need more total protein than this in order to meet your needs outside of stimulating MPS, which is another reason for the rest not just getting used as energy.

[Culican]

People always talk about muscle protein synthesis and never about muscle protein breakdown. Skeletal muscle is the largest protein source in the body. Eating more at night may not increase MPS but, by providing a source of of protein for other body functions, it may reduce the breakdown of muscle for protein, which could result in more net protein accretion in the muscles.

All speculation of course.

[mouse]

I dunno, if the timing is right I like to get 40-60g before bed...I don't buy in to the casein nonsense. If I want casein before sleep I'll mix in two scoops with a glass of milk...

[cwd]

Cheese = casein + fat + salt + germs, right?

Instead of casein powder, could you just eat a chunk of relatively low-fat cheese?
Part-skim mozzarella, cottage cheese, greek yoghurt, etc.