Its not really Texas Method anymore

[TimK]

Much easier than getting @TimK to a 650 DL, but if I had to pick between getting my one-time 200lb bencher to squat 2255 or TimK to DL 650, I'd put all my money on the 650.

But... I just pulled 660! I mean, it was with straps, but...

Oh.

Ok. I see how it is...

[cgeorg]

ssocs success is self evident as are their reliance on novices and keeping clients on what I would (they themselves) classify as novice linear progression.

As long as the client perceives progress being made, they are happy. Whether the program is optimal or even marginally effective is unimportant if the client thinks they are making gains.

Keep them on NLP forever but make sure they perceive they're making progress? If our complaint is SS is too numbers-based and only focused on weight on the bar - what false progress are they trying to string people along with?

Resets for form/technique. People inevitably take breaks/vacations, that requires another LP as well.

[Allentown]

But... I just pulled 660! I mean, it was with straps, but...

Oh.

Ok. I see how it is...

I'm just not a careful observer. Let's make it 700. I'd put money on you pulling 700 before anyone I know outside this forum squatting 225.

[hsilman]

When I say it's "marketing", whatI mean is Rippetoe has successfully packaged "common knowledge" for beginners into an easily accessible format, and a decent template that works for a short while.

I would guess that a tiny percentage of his captive audience has "read the book". But he did a good job with the title and SEO, directing a lot of traffic his way. Most seminar attendees seem to be either small PTs who have aspirations of gym ownership or something, or the upper middle class slightly older generation.

As for why I say marketing, well you see it in his interviews with anyone I'd consider a "more serious" strength coach. They will agree with him on broad strokes(5s are fine, focus on the big lifts) but he will try and pigeonhole them into endorsing SS and they all say no. His good ideas aren't novel, but he's packaged them well.

And that isn't to denigrate that work. It appeals to a larger demographic, and it gets people lifting weights. But whenever he steps outside that narrow band, or gets too up his own ass about THE METHOD, it goes off the rails.

I feel like, 10 years ago he knew this, at least a little better. But it's getting worse and worse.

[hsilman]

This of course doesn't touch on his personal politics, #voluntaryhardship, and other such stuff which is just...

*Jerking motion*

[topfen]

I don't know how well this actually works in real life, but Rip's idea of using the NLP and the added weight on the bar to get potential clients interested in barbell training sounded like a pretty cool concept. Thanks to crossfits we now have middle-aged housewives doing snatch grip deadlifts as a way to tone the body. But I talked to a ton of older athletes and sportscoaches who had never done any barbell lifting because machines were all they had access to.

So maybe over 10 years ago barbell training as a profitable model of fitness training was a bigger deal than it is nowadays?

[quark]

When I say it's "marketing", what I mean is Rippetoe has successfully packaged "common knowledge" for beginners into an easily accessible format, and a decent template that works for a short while.

If memory serves, he wrote that a favorable mention in a NY Times column caused his book sales to soar and the resulting high placement on the Amazon best sellers list continues to drive book sales, which in turn has led to other helpful publicity.

[chrisd]

I don't know how well this actually works in real life, but Rip's idea of using the NLP and the added weight on the bar to get potential clients interested in barbell training sounded like a pretty cool concept. Thanks to crossfits we now have middle-aged housewives doing snatch grip deadlifts as a way to tone the body. But I talked to a ton of older athletes and sportscoaches who had never done any barbell lifting because machines were all they had access to.

So maybe over 10 years ago barbell training as a profitable model of fitness training was a bigger deal than it is nowadays?

In the UK there are more barbells and racks in gyms than before. So I think it's a bigger deal now. I only started because the gym I used had a barbell.

Whether constantly adding weight retains clients... Not I'm my experience. There are plenty of other ways and most of my demographic do not care a jot about their powetlifting total. They might if they stick with it, but beginners go by feels and if it feels bad, they leave and do something more agreeable.

[Murelli]

I don't know how well this actually works in real life, but Rip's idea of using the NLP and the added weight on the bar to get potential clients interested in barbell training sounded like a pretty cool concept. Thanks to crossfits we now have middle-aged housewives doing snatch grip deadlifts as a way to tone the body. But I talked to a ton of older athletes and sportscoaches who had never done any barbell lifting because machines were all they had access to.

So maybe over 10 years ago barbell training as a profitable model of fitness training was a bigger deal than it is nowadays?

In the UK there are more barbells and racks in gyms than before. So I think it's a bigger deal now. I only started because the gym I used had a barbell.

Whether constantly adding weight retains clients... Not I'm my experience. There are plenty of other ways and most of my demographic do not care a jot about their powetlifting total. They might if they stick with it, but beginners go by feels and if it feels bad, they leave and do something more agreeable.

Teardrop quads, weightloss, chesticles, toned glutes and abzorz. That's the meat and potatoes of the fidness world. Ask all the trainers who make a living out of it.

[EricK]

ssocs success is self evident as are their reliance on novices and keeping clients on what I would (they themselves) classify as novice linear progression.

As long as the client perceives progress being made, they are happy. Whether the program is optimal or even marginally effective is unimportant if the client thinks they are making gains.

Keep them on NLP forever but make sure they perceive they're making progress? If our complaint is SS is too numbers-based and only focused on weight on the bar - what false progress are they trying to string people along with?

Resets for form/technique. People inevitably take breaks/vacations, that requires another LP as well.

Also: running it out.

[ithryn]

When I say it's "marketing", whatI mean is Rippetoe has successfully packaged "common knowledge" for beginners into an easily accessible format, and a decent template that works for a short while.

I guess I didn't think it was that common. Maybe it is now in 2018?

The "short while" thing always bugged me. You do what cgeorg is saying:

Resets for form/technique. People inevitably take breaks/vacations, that requires another LP as well.

And then after 12 months of this you post to the forums and get yelled at because NLP is supposed to last 3 months max. And then what would you have done after the 3 months anyway? People (me) are terrible at self-programming; they're bad at even just showing up and training at all on their own.

But note this is what I did trying to train on my own, this wasn't some nefarious SSC scheme to keep me down and coming back for more. In fact an actual SSC would sometimes alternately observe, cajole, or quietly imply that if I had coaching all along, I would've made a shit ton more progress...and he's right. Knowing this SSC it would've involved a lot of volume training, probably.

[Hanley]

Getting that handful of people to a 225 squat would be a heroic task

Wait, what?

You mean like compelling people to do something they have no interest in?

Getting people with a teensy bit of motivation to get strong to squat 225 is pretty damned easy.

[Allentown]

Wait, what?

You mean like compelling people to do something they have no interest in?

Getting people with a teensy bit of motivation to get strong to squat 225 is pretty damned easy.

Well, the thing is, they don't actually have any motivation to get strong. Like 95% of fitnessers, they just want to look better. If you asked them if they wanted to get strong(er), they would say yes, sure. They might even be willing to bench press and do all the curls. But they have no interest in putting a bar on their back. Like Kyle says, they might do it once. They might come over to the garage saying "I want to get big and strong and have arms and legs like tree trunks." But a pair of 25s on the bar, get them to do a few sets, and from then on they are going to be washing their hair, or "hurt my knee jogging," or "I just want to get toned." I'm just saying that's my experience with everyone outside this site- they have gym memberships, weights at home, etc- none will ever squat 225, even though, yes, getting them there would be pretty damned easy.

[ithryn]

315 might be a better example? I was having trouble with 225 and an SSC said in person "But when you're squatting 315," and I literally thought to myself That will never, ever happen.

Initially my goal was just to get in "better shape"

The low 200s is where I've seen a few adult males drop off and take up 5k races. This is probably where BBM is superior because they'll work with that instead of saying "suck it up, keep doing 95% squats or you're not a man" to everybody. (Granted I think eventually it was good for me to hear that at the time)

[Hanley]

315 might be a better example?

How 'bout a sub 6:15 mile? That's hard

[Allentown]

315 might be a better example? I was having trouble with 225 and an SSC said in person "But when you're squatting 315," and I literally thought to myself That will never, ever happen.

225 works, because in my case, that is a weight that will never be squatted by the actual people I am talking about. If you are consulting with an SSC (regardless of what we think about the cert) you are already leaps and bounds beyond them. I'm not saying it's hard. I'm saying it will take more than one session of at least >0 effort. All people who have a gym membership & some sort of home gym setup.

Oh, shoot, I do know one guy off this site who squats >300, at least until he tore his ankle on a spontaneous trail half-marathon last week.

[Hanley]

Oh. Shit. A sub 2:30 800m. Brutal. No one wants to do that shit.

My sister ran waaay below that as a 14 year old. But getting a grown-ass doughball to run below 2:30? Shit won't happen.

[EricK]

Wait, what?

You mean like compelling people to do something they have no interest in?

Getting people with a teensy bit of motivation to get strong to squat 225 is pretty damned easy.

Well, the thing is, they don't actually have any motivation to get strong. Like 95% of fitnessers, they just want to look better. If you asked them if they wanted to get strong(er), they would say yes, sure. They might even be willing to bench press and do all the curls. But they have no interest in putting a bar on their back. Like Kyle says, they might do it once. They might come over to the garage saying "I want to get big and strong and have arms and legs like tree trunks." But a pair of 25s on the bar, get them to do a few sets, and from then on they are going to be washing their hair, or "hurt my knee jogging," or "I just want to get toned." I'm just saying that's my experience with everyone outside this site- they have gym memberships, weights at home, etc- none will ever squat 225, even though, yes, getting them there would be pretty damned easy.

Don't be jealous of my glorious hygiene and mediocre squat/deadlift.

[EricK]

315 might be a better example?

How 'bout a sub 6:15 mile? That's hard

My best is in the low 5 range. Back when I was 165 and running a few miles was a daily thing. I kind of wonder how long a single mile would take me now that I have a staggering 1300 total under my belt...

[topfen]

Wait, what?

You mean like compelling people to do something they have no interest in?

Getting people with a teensy bit of motivation to get strong to squat 225 is pretty damned easy.

Well, the thing is, they don't actually have any motivation to get strong. Like 95% of fitnessers, they just want to look better. If you asked them if they wanted to get strong(er), they would say yes, sure. They might even be willing to bench press and do all the curls. But they have no interest in putting a bar on their back. Like Kyle says, they might do it once. They might come over to the garage saying "I want to get big and strong and have arms and legs like tree trunks." But a pair of 25s on the bar, get them to do a few sets, and from then on they are going to be washing their hair, or "hurt my knee jogging," or "I just want to get toned." I'm just saying that's my experience with everyone outside this site- they have gym memberships, weights at home, etc- none will ever squat 225, even though, yes, getting them there would be pretty damned easy.

This.

225lbs might be a bit low for active, healthy men. But I doubt a gym-owner can afford to turn away people that don't really want to lift but who think they need to.

My workplace is at a business complex that offers all kind of services to the people who work there. One of those services is a gym that has made a lot of space for things like barbells, KBs, ropes and other equipment for crossfit-type conditioning. I don't train there myself, but I know one of the coaches and he tells me because most of his clients have no real interest in lifting heavy weights and because they lack a frame of reference they think once you can lift something like 100kg/225lbs you ought to be strong enough and that there is no point in pushing beyond that point. They are fine to get squats out of their way because they heard you need to squat. But it is more about being seen squatting and being able to tell other people that you do. If they want to brag about heavy weights they can always do quarter reps in the 45° leg press machine.