Exodus novice programs

[RobUK]

what is the recommendation around here for novice programs?

If somebody asked me, I would answer by first asking that person about their goals. My experience is that most men do not care about their powerlifting total; therefore, for those men I would not recommend any MWF squat, bench/press, deadlift program. Not even for a few weeks.

I'd say clean up your diet if necessary, and lift six times a week. It'd be something like ABCABCD, where D = day off and:
A
Bench press / pullups (superset)
Dips / chins (superset)
Pullups and chins with lat pulldwn machine to start
B
Press
Row (BB or seated cable)
Curls / LTE (superset)
Conditioning
C
HBBS
Deads

Sets of seven reps. Add incline bench, more rows, shrugs after about a month or two. After another month or two, add in some triples instead of 7s.
Why not? Come at me, bros.

Would you object to Rows being paired with Bench and Chins with Press? Because I like the 'opposite movement' thing. The fact that you have 2x volume of horizontal push v 2 x volume of vertical pull is messing with that for me though!

[cwd]

@KyleSchuant, it sounds like people who program for beginners for money need to mostly be concerned with retention.

Have you considered adding fun conditioning stuff like battle ropes and bag work?

[Savs]

Would you object to Rows being paired with Bench and Chins with Press? Because I like the 'opposite movement' thing. The fact that you have 2x volume of horizontal push v 2 x volume of vertical pull is messing with that for me though!

Aww, man. I pretty much live and let live. The only thing I strenously object is douchebags who use j instead of i for the square root of -1. I also like the opposite movement thing, but I think with the deads you get some maor horizontal (and vertical) pulling. Hittin' it from all angles.

[cgeorg]

fun conditioning stuff like battle ropes

wut?

[KyleSchuant]

On second thoughts, cwd, that's a business question, which I put here.

[unruhschuh]

Would you object to Rows being paired with Bench and Chins with Press? Because I like the 'opposite movement' thing. The fact that you have 2x volume of horizontal push v 2 x volume of vertical pull is messing with that for me though!

Aww, man. I pretty much live and let live. The only thing I strenously object is douchebags who use j instead of i for the square root of -1. I also like the opposite movement thing, but I think with the deads you get some maor horizontal (and vertical) pulling. Hittin' it from all angles.

Do you even quaternions? I also like to typeset 'i' upright (non-italic) to distinguish it from a variable 'i'.

I'd do SSLP - power cleans + curls and move on to more advanced programming early. Or just listen to @JordanFeigenbaum.

[Monoides]

I'd do SSLP - power cleans + curls

I know they're basically useless for most people, but I have found them quite useful for very early novices in 2 ways, provided they're actually capable of doing them:

1. They're the lift that gets most people to approach you to ask you what the hell you're up to (which is an opportunity to get them to try other barbell type things.)
2. Their start position is basically the same as the deadlift, which makes them useful for reinforcing good deadlift technique when 3x a week is a bit too much, and starting out they're probably close enough to the DL to contribute a bit to it anyway.

Just for those alone, there's probably a 6-week window in novice training where they're actually useful. Also for a bit of variety, even if the lifter never does them again.

[Murelli]

I'd do something like Izzy's PTW novice program.

[mgil]

Just fleshing this out a bit more

Phase 1: Week 1 through 3 (All Sessions)

Lift	Sets	Reps
HBBS	4	4
Bench	4	4
Conv DL	4	4

Phase 2: Week 4 through 6 (All Sessions)

Lift	Sets	Reps
LBBS	4	4
OHP	4	4
Sumo DL	4	4

Phase 3: Week 7 through 9 (All Sessions)

Lift	Sets	Reps
Front Squat	4	4
Close Grip BP	4	4
Snatch Grip DL	4	4

Phase 4: Week 10 and beyond

A Day
Lift	Sets	Reps
HBBS	4	4
Bench	4	4
Conv DL	4	4
B Day
Lift	Sets	Reps
LBBS	4	4
OHP	4	4
Sumo DL	4	4
C Day
Lift	Sets	Reps
Front Squat	4	4
Close Grip BP	4	4
Snatch Grip DL	4	4

Rationale

Phase one is probably the "simplest" compound lifts to learn. Start with high bar squats to minimize low back stress so that DL volume can be kept consistent with other lifts.

Phase two introduces the low bar squat and as a result introduces sumo DL. That keeps the low back from a little too much attention. OHP is introduced to keep overall session fatigue a little lower.

Phase three introduces front squat with snatch grip to work the lower back. Close grip to give the lifter a good bench variant.

Phase four cycles them all with a weekly LP that is going to mimic the "MMM" mentality of The Bridge. I'd expect phase four to last 3-9 weeks.

Once phase four runs its course, I'd run a quick taper and get 1RM values for all and then go to intermediate programming. The 1RM can be used for percentages and/or to track e1RM if RPE is used.

[cwd]

fun conditioning stuff like battle ropes

wut?

As Kyle said, this is a business question. These exercises are silly bullshit, I'm not claiming they are good for developing strength.

To stay on-topic, what should a beginner's strength program be optimized for?

Rip's claim is that it should be optimized for rapid visible gains in weight on the bar. Increase the weight every session, focus only on the load.

I see a lot of proposed programs here that seem to assume the beginner has already committed to a lifetime of bodybuilding, or powerlifting or something. Most beginners I think are wishy-washy undecideds who kind of want to look nicer naked. And who will give up at around a bodyweight squat no matter what.

[perman]

Would you object to Rows being paired with Bench and Chins with Press? Because I like the 'opposite movement' thing. The fact that you have 2x volume of horizontal push v 2 x volume of vertical pull is messing with that for me though!

Aww, man. I pretty much live and let live. The only thing I strenously object is douchebags who use j instead of i for the square root of -1.

So you hate electrical engineers who use it for differential equations where time varying current is called i? What would be your letter for time varying current then?

[Savs]

I also like to typeset 'i' upright (non-italic) to distinguish it from a variable 'i'.

I was going to go into math mode and use \imath (because we can, thank you, sir! <--- That's not: Have a good day and good luck with your training!) to get it to look right, but then was like, eh, fuck it.

So you hate electrical engineers

Yup, and you could've stopped right there.

time varying current is called i? What would be your letter for time varying current then?

Fuck them. What is the current density? j, right? They just want to be different. Have their own little club. Just like the mechanical engineeers with their "moment". Fuck em.

[Monoides]

I see a lot of proposed programs here that seem to assume the beginner has already committed to a lifetime of bodybuilding, or powerlifting or something. Most beginners I think are wishy-washy undecideds who kind of want to look nicer naked. And who will give up at around a bodyweight squat no matter what.

For most people who are wishy-washy and undecided, I'd say it's 'Get them as far away from the state they were in when they started, as quickly as possible, without causing injury.'

Most people don't start a training/exercise program because they've got a particular goal in mind, they start it because they're unhappy with where they are now. 'Weight on the bar' is a nice little semi-objective heuristic for that, which I guess is one of the main appeals of Starting Strength. And to be honest, even if they do have a goal, getting them to add weight to the bar for a few months without doing anything too stupid (like fatfucking themselves or grinding @12s for weeks on end) seems like as sensible a starting point as any.

[Savs]

To stay on-topic

Yeah. What's with the pencil necks talking about imaginary numbers? Dropping f bombs, too.

what should a beginner's strength program be optimized for?

Maybe you and I agree a little here? (By the way, I don't think my opinion should be given much weight. I'm just saying what I think.) Does strength = powerlifting? What are the chances a newb is certain he/she wants to do powerlifting? Why not give them a program that allows them to transition to powerlifting, strongman, endurance sports, team sports, or whatever they decide they want to do after say six months, AND gets them on the path to a healthier lifestyle and possibly looking better naked? I think the novice SSLP program (sheetcakes aside) is wrong for most people, and I hold that opinion pretty strongly.

Edit: I see Monoides post. I agree, but why not include some more movements besides squat, squat, and squat (slight exaggeration). And why not have some conditioning?

[Monoides]

Edit: I see Monoides post. I agree, but why not include some more movements besides squat, squat, and squat (slight exaggeration). And why not have some conditioning?

Definitely agree with you on the conditioning, especially after the first few weeks. I did debate adding 'not letting your work capacity go to shit' after 'not doing something stupid like fatfucking yourself' but I figured that included both. Sorry!

As for extra movements, within reason, yes. I'm not qualified to define 'within reason' though. A little more upper body work definitely wouldn't hurt. (Or would it?)

[damufunman]

So you hate electrical engineers

Yup, and you could've stopped right there.

time varying current is called i? What would be your letter for time varying current then?

Fuck them. What is the current density? j, right? They just want to be different. Have their own little club.

Yes, yes, let the hate flow.

Just like the mechanical engineeers with their "moment". Fuck em.

Hey now. This is different. It's not just to be different, it's a useful abstraction that holds true if we're not (initially) worried about internal loads. Like with a power rack, or j-hook...

[cwd]

Since the #1 problem for beginners is compliance, it would be cool if there were some adequate simple strength program that was wrapped up in a giant cultural placebo-effect for them to obsess over.

I.e. we could get Arnold, the Rock, etc. to all promote the same beginner program, charge people $19.95 per month to follow it, have infomercials and T-shirts, etc. Maybe have official ranks and belt ceremonies like Tae Kwon Do franchises. Merit badges and tattoos.

Maybe two different versions, one that's marketed for men as being ruff-n-tuff with camo and heavy metal, and another for women that's all pink and purple and features glute-hypertrophy accessories. But really, they'd be 90% the same.

[cwd]

Come to think of it, this is basically what SS/TAoM are trying to do, isn't it?

[augeleven]

but why not include some more movements besides squat, squat, and squat (slight exaggeration). And why not have some conditioning?

conditioning kills squat gains. /s

[bobmen10000]

but why not include some more movements besides squat, squat, and squat (slight exaggeration). And why not have some conditioning?

conditioning kills squat gains. /s

Didn't Rip sort of approve using the prowler for conditioning on off days? I know he has mentioned it in at least a couple articles but I remember a post or two where he gave tacit approval to prowler work during novice progression.