Sumo or conventional?

[KDW]

@RobUK , Yes deadlifting from blocks is a viable option for a non-competitor who is anthropometrically-challenged. However, the blue book is WRONG; sumo isn't bad. It isn't easier. It is different and it takes a lot of work to improve just like any other lift. It is still a legit pull from the floor in competition and people who don't compete don't care anyway; they shouldn't shun a completely fine variation of pulling from the floor.

[KDW]

Thanks @KDW. That is some good info! Do you think, based on the videos, that I fit the sumo body type? I tried pulling sumo for a couple weeks but it was wrecking my quads and adductors. So much so that it was affecting squats and deadlifts. My hip mobility is god awful as others have mentioned, so it may be quite sometime before I can pull decently sumo. I went back to regular conventional this week. Zero quad pain and was able to squat. No, my back is not perfectly flat, but it is what it is. I can get it flat and keep it flat at ‘light weights’ and rack pulls, though.

To me you look like you could do either. It doesn't look like you are running out of room on the conventional although that could change if you grew some. You probably could use a wider stance on conventional or just some tweak to allow a little more extension in the lower back. That's all. It doesn't look like the stomach pressed against the thighs, chest between the knees position that I described above. You have a good back angle in both sumo and conventional...visibly not parallel to the floor.

As for sumo mobility, it looked fine to me. It improves over a long period of time. But you will never have Krzysztof Wierzbicki anthropometry; so why worry about it. He's the perfect picture of sumo. It is unattainable by most. That's why he is a god and we are merely mortals. If you enjoy sumo, mix it in here and there. Just don't go too wide or anything like that. Take it easy with the adjustment to the change in muscular recruitment. Adductor soreness is to be expected since they will be recruited more than in conventional. Knee pain is usually due to not enough warm up or a set up that is not loading the hips enough. Just takes some practice.

[RobUK]

@RobUK , Yes deadlifting from blocks is a viable option for a non-competitor who is anthropometrically-challenged. However, the blue book is WRONG; sumo isn't bad. It isn't easier. It is different and it takes a lot of work to improve just like any other lift. It is still a legit pull from the floor in competition and people who don't compete don't care anyway; they shouldn't shun a completely fine variation of pulling from the floor.

Thanks and agreed, was just explaining my initial decision many moons ago. I’m actually really looking forward to progressing sumo and having a legit deadlift number.

[Murelli]

Let's not forget that, for some people, Sumo is a great helper in building a bigger conventional (@KoolaidMannn, @Manveer?).

[KoolaidMannn]

@Manveer had some crazy carry over, like pulled a 27lb PR on conventional after doing sumo for 4+ months. I believe mike T mentioned the same thing, could be wrong tho.

Sumo improved my conventional mechanics by a lot, enough for Hanley to mention it all the way in Montana.

[Manveer]

Sumo is the best thing I’ve done for my conventional deadlift in years. I’ll pull ~625 once my back heals.

[LexAnderson]

I've noticed the since I've starting pulling sumo, that when I do pull conventional it seems like I am able to get in a better position.

[Toxguy]

@KDW Thanks for the thoughtful post. It is good to hear that I could go either way. I haven't pulled enough sumo to decide if I like it or not. I am much stronger in my conventional at the moment, I just get frustrated that my back angle is not pretty sometimes. I definitely need to adjust to sumo and probably implement it more slowly. I was probably a little too aggressive with the intensity and frequency with it and it started affecting my other lifts and my adductors were not very happy. I'll widen out the stance in the conventional and see how it goes. Thanks again!

@KoolaidMannn Good to know I wasn't doing anything wrong and that it was to be expected. I'll ease the sumo as a variation I think to keep up with the practice and see if that is OK.

@Manveer Damn dude! That is a crazy carryover. So, are you strictly a sumo puller now? Or did you pull sumo one cycle and then conventional the next?

[Murelli]

@Manveer Damn dude! That is a crazy carryover. So, are you strictly a sumo puller now? Or did you pull sumo one cycle and then conventional the next?

He is a conventional puller whose coach used sumo for some time in order to improve his conventional. Anti-Rip posterboy?

[Manveer]

@Manveer Damn dude! That is a crazy carryover. So, are you strictly a sumo puller now? Or did you pull sumo one cycle and then conventional the next?

He is a conventional puller whose coach used sumo for some time in order to improve his conventional. Anti-Rip posterboy?

Pulled conv for a long time (5 years). Was stuck forever at 550-570. Tried sumo because there was nothing to lose and my back wasn’t staying flat on heavy conventional pulls despite lots of work on technique. Sumo was hurting my hips during this recent meet prep cycle, so I switched to conventional just so I could continue pulling. Pulled a big PR (584@7.5), then another big PR the week after (601@8.5). Didn’t get any stronger in that one week, of course.

Mike T said something to the effect that I was the poster boy for individualized training.

[Toxguy]

@Manveer Damn dude! That is a crazy carryover. So, are you strictly a sumo puller now? Or did you pull sumo one cycle and then conventional the next?

He is a conventional puller whose coach used sumo for some time in order to improve his conventional. Anti-Rip posterboy?

HA, no doubt. We thank him for his voluntary hardship

[Sumo]

Sumo carries over to Conventional, but not the other way around. This isn't something that specific to individuals either, Sumo is one of the best assistance exercises for conventional bar none. That being said, it is a good idea to keep conventional in your training for the lower back strength factor, because Sumo, if done correctly, will not hit that area much.

I pulled exclusively Sumo for about 3-4 months, and found that my conventional went up 20kg when I tested it for shits and giggles. Likely more than thaht, because my conventional max was 170 in meet, and this was a 190 pull in training and I was good for another 2.5-5kg or another rep.

[KoolaidMannn]

Sumo carries over to Conventional, but not the other way around. This isn't something that specific to individuals either, Sumo is one of the best assistance exercises for conventional bar none.

I think I would disagree with this partly, the point about conventional not carrying over to sumo. I think the caveat though is that for conventional to carry over to sumo you have to already have developed the “sumo skill”. If you have never pulled sumo in your life I would agree that conventional won’t have much carry over.

I can also test this on myself after my strongman comp in June since I’ve only been pulling conventional and will only be leading up to it.

[Sumo]

Sumo carries over to Conventional, but not the other way around. This isn't something that specific to individuals either, Sumo is one of the best assistance exercises for conventional bar none.

I think I would disagree with this partly, the point about conventional not carrying over to sumo. I think the caveat though is that for conventional to carry over to sumo you have to already have developed the “sumo skill”. If you have never pulled sumo in your life I would agree that conventional won’t have much carry over.

I can also test this on myself after my strongman comp in June since I’ve only been pulling conventional and will only be leading up to it.

Both lifts have a degree of carryover to each other by virtue of the fact they hit certain areas of the body harder than the other. So as far as as getting benefits from training either one, there's always a benefit. That being said if we're talking about an experienced lifter, Sumo has incredible carryover to Conventional, but the same is not the case for Convetional carryover to Sumo.

All that being said, although I main Sumo, Conventional still plays a huge part in my training. Two main reasons why I use Conventional and variations of it:

• The majority of my training is done Sumo, but every 4th or 5th week I switch to Conventional only for a week to give my hips a break. I need to give special consideration here because I also squat with a wide stance, which means my hips can take quite the beating.
• The second reason is because Conventional Deadlifts hit the quads, spinal erectors, and upper back far more than Sumo. One of the weak areas I've identitifed and I need to work on, are my erectors. So using Convetional Deadlifts and variations of it makes perfect sense to strengthen those areas.

[KoolaidMannn]

@Sumo Ah gotcha was just wanting to clarify your original statment since you said one carried over to the other and not the other way around.

Obviously it’s kinda speculation but how much do you think the carryover from sumo to conventional diminishes after you have gone from zero sumo pulling to developing the skill/getting it to ~85% of conventional? If it diminishes much at all?

[Sumo]

@Sumo Ah gotcha was just wanting to clarify your original statment since you said one carried over to the other and not the other way around.

Obviously it’s kinda speculation but how much do you think the carryover from sumo to conventional diminishes after you have gone from zero sumo pulling to developing the skill/getting it to ~85% of conventional? If it diminishes much at all?

Yep, I realised I didn't make it very clear in my orginal comment.

Honestly, I'd wager diminishing returns kick in harder the closer you get to your Conventional and Sumo reching parrity. When I switched to Sumo my deadlift blew up overnight. Inside of 3 months I found myself with over 100lbs discrepancy between my Conventional and Sumo max. 2 months later, a total of 5 months after switching and never once going over 65% in conventional or varitions of it, I pulled a max conventional for shits and giggles and found it had gone up 44lbs.