squat depth check

[rjharris]

I'm currently dealing with depth issues that may or may not be made worse by my (heeled) do-wins. Here's a relatively light set for me at 275 (normally I'd wear a belt for anything 275 or over, but I didn't here for some reason).



It really looks to me like I had marginal depth / was a little high on all of them, but tbh, I've been looking at myself squat so much my eyes are bugging out, so I'd appreciate some help. I thought the singlet would be better than my relatively baggy shorts to see the hip crease, but maybe not.

While I'm at it, it also looks like my knees are coming back a little at the bottom.

Thanks for any help.

[Wilhelm]

You seem to have a similar thing to me, where the first rep is often higher than subsequent reps.
I think some (if not all) of those after the first might actually be to depth. You squat faster than i do, so it's harder for me to see at full speed. If i had to call it, i'd say the first rep was parallel.
I started using a PC program called Kinovea. I never got its motion (auto) tracking to work, but the slow mo and frame by frame feature help when i'm in doubt about depth. Pausing is more responsive than youtube as well. That's a big help.
Most of my reps are deep now, and my eye has gotten better, so i can usually tell at full speed when they aren't.
There is a line feature i figured out, and used at first sometimes, drawing a line from the top of the knee backward over the hip crease. This helped on ones i thought were close, and i would often see they were deeper than i thought at full speed.
https://www.kinovea.org/

This one is for Apple devices. I'm assuming it's similar to Kinovea.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iron-pa ... 64910?mt=8

I think looking at them this way might help you develop your eye for your own squats.

[RobUK]

I think they're probably ok but I'm frequently confused about the SSCs assessment of depth in the SSC's forum, doesn't seem consistent to me at all.

Plus the pattern of your singlet is making my eyes go funny! If you are lifting in the privacy of your own home try just wearing underwear, I randomly trie this when taking my bottoms off and couldn't be arsed to put my shorts on, was so much easier to see my hip crease - helps if your boxers are quite snug!

I also can't believe how far you can get your knees forward with no heels, which is impressive from a flexibility perspective, but have you tried lifting shoes? Because your heels do look like they are coming up a touch? Nice technique in general though.

[rjharris]

@Wilhelm, thanks for the comments and for the software suggestion. My laptop is a mac, so it looks like no Kinovea for me, but I'll try the other one next time I'm lifting.

I think I agree with you that they are all very close except maybe the first one. I'll just try to get a little deeper I guess.

@RobUK: yes, I am also sometimes confused about what they say re: depth. Sorry about the singlet. I thought it would make it easier, but I think that the pattern + the resolution limits of the video are just confusing everything. I have some snug-ish boxer briefs, so I may try this, but I probably won't inflict the video on anyone....

As far as lifting shoes, yes, I do have them (Rogue Do-wins, with the 1/2 inch heel), and I was lifting in them. I got decently far (up to 335x5), but when I filmed my sets one day, I wasn't getting to depth (by probably 2inches) and this is a recurring thing, so I'm messing around with things to see. I agree re: the heels.

[TimK]

You seem to have a similar thing to me, where the first rep is often higher than subsequent reps.
I think some (if not all) of those after the first might actually be to depth. You squat faster than i do, so it's harder for me to see at full speed. If i had to call it, i'd say the first rep was parallel.
I started using a PC program called Kinovea. I never got its motion (auto) tracking to work, but the slow mo and frame by frame feature help when i'm in doubt about depth. Pausing is more responsive than youtube as well. That's a big help.
Most of my reps are deep now, and my eye has gotten better, so i can usually tell at full speed when they aren't.
There is a line feature i figured out, and used at first sometimes, drawing a line from the top of the knee backward over the hip crease. This helped on ones i thought were close, and i would often see they were deeper than i thought at full speed.
https://www.kinovea.org/

This one is for Apple devices. I'm assuming it's similar to Kinovea.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iron-pa ... 64910?mt=8

I think looking at them this way might help you develop your eye for your own squats.

Thanks for the tip on Kinovea, awesome free program. I normally use VLC for video on my computer and frame-by-frame and slow motion is possible but much more of a PITA to do. I haven't figured out the lines and dots and whatnot but I'll probably play around with them later. The way you can set boundaries for a "working portion" of the video is great too so you can easily analyze one rep over and over from the same starting point.

EDIT: I just realized I can use this as a crude barspeed measurement. I set the first frame of the working portion to the very bottom of my squat, just before I start to move upward, and the last frame to the moment where my knees lock out at the top. I can then see the length of the working portion displayed on the screen which gives me the duration of that rep. I just checked a recent heavy single against one I did back in September and saw a duration of 2:33 seconds vs 3:23, useful information.

[Wilhelm]

@rjharris - I gotta say, i was convinced my top single today was parallel.
I was wearing gym shorts, so that may have been part of it. Plus i got in the habit of being well below depth in the time before my meet.
I took the vid to Kinovea, slow mo-d it, used the line feature too for the first time in a while.
easily to depth.
So don't go too much by my call on your first rep.

*Edit to add -I just looked at it again, and i think it probably is deep.

For purely looking at depth, i prefer a 90 degree camera angle.
You lose info about knee angle, but if it's depth i am focused on, i like that best.
That's the angle i'm going to use for the Exodus meet too.

[fishwife]

To my eye, 3 & 5 are borderline, and the rest are just a touch high.

Something to work on but not terrible. It's pretty close.

Of more concern to me is all that extra movement and rolling your thoracic area under the bar as you prepare to descend. That's a bad habit. Don't overthink your spine. Just stick your chest out hard, tighten everything up, and start the movement.

In addition, it looks like you're trying to eke out a little extra depth by bending over more instead of sinking down into the hips more. There's more movement in your spine as you approach/come up out of the bottom than there should be as a result. Think about trying to keep your torso more vertical at the bottom to counteract this tendency.

[mgil]

To my eye, 3 & 5 are borderline, and the rest are just a touch high.

Something to work on but not terrible. It's pretty close.

Of more concern to me is all that extra movement and rolling your thoracic area under the bar as you prepare to descend. That's a bad habit. Don't overthink your spine. Just stick your chest out hard, tighten everything up, and start the movement.

In addition, it looks like you're trying to eke out a little extra depth by bending over more instead of sinking down into the hips more. There's more movement in your spine as you approach/come up out of the bottom than there should be as a result. Think about trying to keep your torso more vertical at the bottom to counteract this tendency.

+1

@rjharris, you’re losing significant strength and possibly increasing risk with the extension-flexion-extension cycle you’ve got there.

Knees out, little more upright (maybe a gaze cue works here?), and stay set hard while dropping your ass into the hole. Whenever I’m trying to “find depth” with my butt while squatting, I get that weird butt-wink deal.

Front squats may help here also.

[rjharris]

Of more concern to me is all that extra movement and rolling your thoracic area under the bar as you prepare to descend. That's a bad habit. Don't overthink your spine. Just stick your chest out hard, tighten everything up, and start the movement.

In addition, it looks like you're trying to eke out a little extra depth by bending over more instead of sinking down into the hips more. There's more movement in your spine as you approach/come up out of the bottom than there should be as a result. Think about trying to keep your torso more vertical at the bottom to counteract this tendency.

Okay, will try to work on this during the coming week and see if I can fix it.

@rjharris, you’re losing significant strength and possibly increasing risk with the extension-flexion-extension cycle you’ve got there.

Knees out, little more upright (maybe a gaze cue works here?), and stay set hard while dropping your ass into the hole. Whenever I’m trying to “find depth” with my butt while squatting, I get that weird butt-wink deal.

Front squats may help here also.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were gaze related. It's almost certainly too low.

If I were to try to put in front squats, how would you program? Assistance lift after everything? On a Wed. light day? Or does it just not matter that much?

[mgil]

Light day. They help with the “upright” feel and hip mobility.

[rjharris]

Got it, thanks.