HPS weekly cycle

[unruhschuh]

I'm currently doing a 8/5/2 weekly rotation using HLM for the setup of the week. I'd like to incorporate some of the ideas discussed in this thread and I came up with this:

	H	L	M
Squat	4x8, 5x5, 5x2	2@70, 2@75, 2@80, 2x1@85	3x5, 3x3, 3x1

Heavy
This is the high stress day, rotating 8/5/2 weekly. Maybe take a deload once in a while or test new 1RMs. The weight would be capped at @8ish. I'd prioritize heavy day and adjust light and medium days accordingly.

Light
Same as the Power day on HPS.

Medium
Same weights as heavy day, but 5/3/1 instead of 8/5/2. I'd do 6/4/2 for bench and press.

The number of sets would be a little different for each lift like so:

	H	L	M
Squat	4x8, 5x5, 5x2	2@70, 2@75, 2@80, 2x1@85	3x5, 3x3, 3x1
Bench	5x8, 5x5, 5x2	2@70, 2@75, 2@80, 2x1@85	3x6, 3x4, 3x2
Deadlift	3x8, 3x5, 3x2	2@70, 2@75, 2@80, 2x1@85	3x5, 3x3, 3x1
Press	5x8, 5x5, 5x2	2@70, 2@75, 2@80, 2x1@85	3x6, 3x4, 3x2

and the schedule would look like this:

	Monday	Thursday	Saturday	Monday
H	Squat	Bench	Deadlift	Press
L	Press	Squat	Bench	Deadlift
M	Deadlift	Press	Squat	Bench

i.e. training three times per week on a four day split.

I like the orderliness of it but does it make sense? The goal is strengthtrophy and fun.

ETA: No variations, only the main lifts.

[MattimusMaximus]

Using...

H:
8x5@70%

P:
2@70%, 2@75%, 2@80%, 1@85%, 1@85%, 1@90%

S:
5x3@80%

...I don't think I'd accumulate much fatigue on upper body stuff with that scheme, although I'm biased there as well.

For LB stuff...

H:
5x5@70%

P:
2@70%, 1@75%, 1@80%, 1@85%, 1@90%

S:
3x3@80%

...with useful accessories (given I had time) would probably kick ass.

dumb question... what's "LB stuff"?

[PatrickDB]

dumb question... what's "LB stuff"?

Lower body.

[MattimusMaximus]

dumb question... what's "LB stuff"?

Lower body.

lmao so obvious now, thank you!

[KarlM]

This thread is great As I see it, the problem with the S in HPS is that it's so damn fatiguing. Why do we need it? Why wouldn't a few heavy singles (maybe 80%, 85% and 90%) followed by a load of volume at 70% be all that you need?

Triples at 80%? Those should be like @7s. Really shouldn't be too fatiguing. 72 hours should be adequate time to recover for most peeps under 50 y/o.

And - yes- I think you need the work around 80% (this is just based on experience lifting and programming for peeps). A marked gap in training intensities (like 70% and 85%) just hasn't gone well for me.

Why ~80%? My guess -- as I've mentioned elsewhere -- is that 80% 1rm marks the threshold at which a lifter can produce a max volitional contraction. That is, almost all MUs are recruited from rep 1. This is a very different thing than cycling through the fastest MUs over the first several reps (as you do at ~70%).

So, the recruitment of MUs at 80% is kinda sorta like the recruitment at 95% or 100% (twitch frequencies/rate coding will be different).

The recruitment of MUs at 70% is nothing like that at 100%.

So, 80% is a good, not-very fatiguing way to get lots of practice at the threshold of the "peak strength" recruitment pattern.

4-5 singles around 85% just doesn't seem to be enough practice (but, then, what motor program is refined with only 5 2-second trials a week?)

edit: now for pure bro hypertrophy? Probably don't need the work at 80%

Ok @Hanley, I'm sold. If you're looking for another guinea pig, I'm willing. Here's what I've cooked up (actually, I just copied @michael's template, with your edits, made it more bench-focused, kept a session of pressing (because I like it), and spread it out over 4 days).

Monday
Squat: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Deadlift: 4x3@72-75%

Tuesday
Bench: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Press: 4X4@75%

Thursday
Squat: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@85% (one at 90% every other week)
Bench: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@ 85% (one at 90% every other week)
Chins

Saturday
Squat: 4x3@80%
Bench: 4x3@80%
Deadlift: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@80%, 2x1@85%

For progression, you've suggested adding about 5 lbs for lower body and 2.5 lbs for upper body per week. You still think this is appropriate in lieu of a bar speed thingy? What do you suggest to do after adding weight stops working?

[Hanley]

I like the orderliness of it but does it make sense?

Yeah. You'd just have to be very conservative with RPEs, or else week 3 turns into lotsa grinding (I'd keep the doubles at about 80-82%)

[Hanley]

If you're looking for another guinea pig, I'm willing. Here's what I've cooked up (actually, I just copied template, with your edits, made it more bench-focused, kept a session of pressing (because I like it), and spread it out over 4 days).

Monday
Squat: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Deadlift: 4x3@72-75%

Tuesday
Bench: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Press: 4X4@75%

Thursday
Squat: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@85% (one at 90% every other week)
Bench: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@ 85% (one at 90% every other week)
Chins

Saturday
Squat: 4x3@80%
Bench: 4x3@80%
Deadlift: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@80%, 2x1@85%

For progression, you've suggested adding about 5 lbs for lower body and 2.5 lbs for upper body per week. You still think this is appropriate in lieu of a bar speed thingy? What do you suggest to do after adding weight stops working?

Looks great.

Regarding progression: what're doing now? I think your jumps look totally doable. I don't love an arbitrary load progression, but - honestly - outside of using a bar speed device -- I haven't really come up with a great way to dial in e1rm using such low RPEs.

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

[augeleven]

If you're looking for a guinea pig on the lower end of the athletic spectrum with super low numbers, I'm seriously into giving this a go after my current GGW cycle.

How much cardio if any could one get away with doing a program like this?

Right now I'm doing:
M - H Sq, M Press, Deadlift volume
T - Circuit of 6x3min treadmill tempo 6x4 chinups
W - Squat, Bench, Rows
R - Circuit of 3x10 min slow bike/treadmill Ez bar curls
F - M squat, Heavy Press, Heavy Deadlift
S - Circuit of 5x 2 min quicker than tempo running, weighted chinups, whatever else I want

My "sport" being backpacking and trail "running" mostly between May and October. I like being pretty trail ready by the end of June.

[damufunman]

If you're looking for another guinea pig, I'm willing. Here's what I've cooked up (actually, I just copied template, with your edits, made it more bench-focused, kept a session of pressing (because I like it), and spread it out over 4 days).

Monday
Squat: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Deadlift: 4x3@72-75%

Tuesday
Bench: 3x5@70%, then 6x4@70%
Press: 4X4@75%

Thursday
Squat: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@85% (one at 90% every other week)
Bench: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@ 80%, 2x1@ 85% (one at 90% every other week)
Chins

Saturday
Squat: 4x3@80%
Bench: 4x3@80%
Deadlift: 2@70%, 2@75%, 2@80%, 2x1@85%

For progression, you've suggested adding about 5 lbs for lower body and 2.5 lbs for upper body per week. You still think this is appropriate in lieu of a bar speed thingy? What do you suggest to do after adding weight stops working?

Looks great.

Regarding progression: what're doing now? I think your jumps look totally doable. I don't love an arbitrary load progression, but - honestly - outside of using a bar speed device -- I haven't really come up with a great way to dial in e1rm using such low RPEs.

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

Count me in if aforementioned recovery issues aren't an issue for you. Also might have a barspeed thingy, if that helps.

[SpinyNorman]

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

Does fitbot let the coach or guinea-pigs subjects participants export all their data?

It would be awesome if it allows you to export data from everyone at the same time into one file. It would be ok if all the users had to do it separately since the format should be consistent and it should be relatively easy to combine them later.

[Hanley]

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

Does fitbot let the coach or guinea-pigs subjects participants export all their data?

It would be awesome if it allows you to export data from everyone at the same time into one file. It would be ok if all the users had to do it separately since the format should be consistent and it should be relatively easy to combine them later.

I assume so. I think the SSOC uses Fitbot, and they compiled data from nearly 1000 people.

[SpinyNorman]

I assume so. I think the SSOC uses Fitbot, and they compiled data from nearly 1000 people.

Cool. I sure hope it's a safe assumption that they didn't compile data from that many people by hand.

[Hiphopapotamus]

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

I'm running the program we talked about on page 5 of this thread and would be happy to sacrifice myself for science participate in the study.

[GrizzlyAdam]

I've got a couple of other guinea-pigs lined up. So, I think I'll draft-up 10 or so variations (cycles ranging from 1-4 weeks) and link to them. If you and the other subjects participants are cool with using fitbot, I might just sign up for fitbot account and send programs to you subjects participants that way. Having 10 or so beta-testers would be awesome.

Yeah, I would happily volunteer as tribute to do this.

[Hanley]

Cool. Thanks, dudes.

I've started up a separate thread soliciting participants. Can you guys shoot me a PM if seriously interested, and we can get started with program design.

[AaronM]

Cool. Thanks, dudes.

I've started up a separate thread soliciting participants. Can you guys shoot me a PM if seriously interested, and we can get started with program design.

I'll hit you up once I hit a 405 squat. I'll be testing tomorrow. If it doesn't go well, I'll hit you up in another 5 weeks.

[Hanley]

Cool. Thanks, dudes.

I've started up a separate thread soliciting participants. Can you guys shoot me a PM if seriously interested, and we can get started with program design.

I'll hit you up once I hit a 405 squat. I'll be testing tomorrow. If it doesn't go well, I'll hit you up in another 5 weeks.

Sweet

[Dan]

I'm moving off of fairly vanilla HLM programming and came up with the following 6-12 week cycle based on what I'm learning from this thread. The idea is to reduce volume and lift intensity for 4 weeks and then alternate a test or deload week as needed. Does this make any sense, or am I not getting this?
Edit: I'm using RPE for the heavy single only. The other values are percentage based. I would recalc each week based on the e1RM of the previous week and auto-regulate that way.

Week 1:
H: 1 @8; 7x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @85%
S: 4x3 @80%
Week 2:
H: 1 @8; 6x5 @70%
S: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @87.5%
P: 4x3 @82%
Week 3:
H: 1 @8; 5x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @90%
S: 5x3 @80%
Week 4:
H: 1 @8; 4x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @92.5%
S: 5x3 @82%
Week 5: 4x4 @82%; singles up to 85%
Week 6: Test or deload

A couple of questions here. I've been back and forth over this thread a few times trying to play catch up. What happens in week 5 in regards to H/P/S? Also, the weights move up weekly even when the percentages stay the same due to recalculating 1RM?

I'm finishing up a run of Andy Baker's HLM template. I like the frequency and volume for the most part, but the third 3-week block of 80%, 85% and 90% at sets across of 6, 5 and 4 just beat the shit out of me. I want to see it through, which will take another 3 or 4 weeks, but I'd sure like to train a bit smarter moving forward.

[Hiphopapotamus]

I'm moving off of fairly vanilla HLM programming and came up with the following 6-12 week cycle based on what I'm learning from this thread. The idea is to reduce volume and lift intensity for 4 weeks and then alternate a test or deload week as needed. Does this make any sense, or am I not getting this?
Edit: I'm using RPE for the heavy single only. The other values are percentage based. I would recalc each week based on the e1RM of the previous week and auto-regulate that way.

Week 1:
H: 1 @8; 7x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @85%
S: 4x3 @80%
Week 2:
H: 1 @8; 6x5 @70%
S: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @87.5%
P: 4x3 @82%
Week 3:
H: 1 @8; 5x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @90%
S: 5x3 @80%
Week 4:
H: 1 @8; 4x5 @70%
P: 2 @70%; 2 @75%; 1 @80%; 2x1 @92.5%
S: 5x3 @82%
Week 5: 4x4 @82%; singles up to 85%
Week 6: Test or deload

A couple of questions here. I've been back and forth over this thread a few times trying to play catch up. What happens in week 5 in regards to H/P/S? Also, the weights move up weekly even when the percentages stay the same due to recalculating 1RM?

I'm finishing up a run of Andy Baker's HLM template. I like the frequency and volume for the most part, but the third 3-week block of 80%, 85% and 90% at sets across of 6, 5 and 4 just beat the shit out of me. I want to see it through, which will take another 3 or 4 weeks, but I'd sure like to train a bit smarter moving forward.

Week 5 was designed as either a set up for a 1RM test in week 6, or as a deload/transition to the next cycle of training. My thinking was to alternate between the two, so I'd be testing only every 13 weeks or so. At least that was the idea. So week 5 has a hypertrophy day of 4x4 @ 82% and a typical power day with singles up to 85%. No strength day in week 5.

[Dan]

Week 5 was designed as either a set up for a 1RM test in week 6, or as a deload/transition to the next cycle of training. My thinking was to alternate between the two, so I'd be testing only every 13 weeks or so. At least that was the idea. So week 5 has a hypertrophy day of 4x4 @ 82% and a typical power day with singles up to 85%. No strength day in week 5.

I see, lower stress would allow for a fresh cycle or rested test week. Am I correct in assuming since you start the week with a single @8, that gives you the numbers for that day and the rest of the week?

Also, is the thinking to set it up like:

Day 1 - H / Day 2 - P / Day 3 - S for all 3 main lifts?

Or offset the work like:

Day 1 Day 2 Day 3
H squat P squat S squat
P bench S bench H bench
S dead H dead P dead

or even:

Day 1 Day 2 Day 3
H squat H bench H dead
P bench P dead P squat
S dead S squat S bench

Thanks in advance