Leg Press vs. Hip Belt Squat Machine

[mgil]

Starting a conversation here as opposed to @Hanley’s log...

Basically, a lot of us are familiar with the concept that a well-equipped gym should have a leg press.

However, in my own mind, the newer versions of the hip belt squat machines, like in the video below, are superior to the leg press for a few reasons:

-Ability to have upper body assistance if needed

-Less initial loading

-Easier to get in and out of

-More muscle mass used overall (stealing from @SeanHerbison’s ideas about Hatfield squats)

-Less loading of the spine

-Less need for 45s and up to load the damned thing since you’re not dealing with sin(pi/4)

-Possibly less square footage in the footprint

Thoughts?

[gtl]

Idk, but I'd also be curious about the different types of belt squats..

Machine (like the video, or a Pit Shark, etc.)
Cable Station (if you bought a Lat Pulldown/Low Cable Row combo -- more versatility if you can use it to belt squat)
Landmine
Loading Pin

My assumption is those are in a order of most effective/efficient vs. least, but how different is the machine vs. a cable station and a cable station vs. a landmine? I'm sure a loading pin pretty much sucks, but it's possible

[mgil]

Idk, but I'd also be curious about the different types of belt squats..

Machine (like the video, or a Pit Shark, etc.)
Cable Station (if you bought a Lat Pulldown/Low Cable Row combo -- more versatility if you can use it to belt squat)
Landmine
Loading Pin

My assumption is those are in a order of most effective/efficient vs. least, but how different is the machine vs. a cable station and a cable station vs. a landmine? I'm sure a loading pin pretty much sucks, but it's possible

Good points.

A cable machine might be cool, but with multifunctional design comes multiple points of failure. This newer design is pretty simple.

Loading pin is limited in terms of both loading and ROM, unless you have people standing on boxes, which rules out a lot of genpop usage. I’ve tried the landmine style myself, and think that sucks. The way Mike T is doing them looks equally sucky.

[gtl]

Good points.

A cable machine might be cool, but with multifunctional design comes multiple points of failure. This newer design is pretty simple.

Loading pin is limited in terms of both loading and ROM, unless you have people standing on boxes, which rules out a lot of genpop usage. I’ve tried the landmine style myself, and think that sucks. The way Mike T is doing them looks equally sucky.

Agreed. I think a cable machine might also require standing on boxes depending on the machine.

These don't look terrible:



But I don't like the swaying.

Then seeing this, I'm like no thanks:

[mbasic]

Depends what your goal is.

Imo....you can't beat a leg press for quadz. Especially when you put your feet low on the push plate to really put the load on the quadz (and knees, danger danger). The way you are locked into position, your body can't just circumvent things (hips, hams, back want to take over).

Alot of hip belt squats I see, the lifter sits back....alot like their LBBS....I mean, if you are using it for a back injury, or to limit the amount stress on you back...yeah I get it, it works great.

The leg press can crank your lumbar around if not used properly. I can't see a guy fucking his back up at all with a belt squat.

Belt squats on blocks with hanging weights seem to awkward to set up. Maybe as a "finisher" with light weights and high reps....

[Cody]

I like leg press a lot. As MB said, you can't shift around to move the load to other parts of the body (aka shitty mechanics). You just press, no need to consider mechanics at all. Leg press is easier to set up in too (outside of toting plates).

[mgil]

The fact that the leg press is mainly quads and “more locked in” is exactly the reason I’d prioritize the hip belt squat rig over leg press. Not saying that the leg press is bad, but it’s a bit too specific.

[Cody]

The fact that the leg press is mainly quads and “more locked in” is exactly the reason I’d prioritize the hip belt squat rig over leg press. Not saying that the leg press is bad, but it’s a bit too specific.

Too specific? Why would you be upset about getting jacked quads? I don't get it.

[mgil]

The fact that the leg press is mainly quads and “more locked in” is exactly the reason I’d prioritize the hip belt squat rig over leg press. Not saying that the leg press is bad, but it’s a bit too specific.

Too specific? Why would you be upset about getting jacked quads? I don't get it.

If you’re using a machine to be an alternate for barbells, I’d think the hip belt is better. That’s basically what I’m saying.

[Cody]

If you’re using a machine to be an alternate for barbells, I’d think the hip belt is better. That’s basically what I’m saying.

In general, you use machines to isolate muscles and train weakness. If you want jacked quads, leg press trains quads better than belt squats. Not needing to maintain balance lets you focus on pressing which means more weight lifted.

[mgil]

If you’re using a machine to be an alternate for barbells, I’d think the hip belt is better. That’s basically what I’m saying.

In general, you use machines to isolate muscles and train weakness. If you want jacked quads, leg press trains quads better than belt squats. Not needing to maintain balance lets you focus on pressing which means more weight lifted.

What about in the context of how Rip advocates for having a leg
press? That’s the context in which I think the hip belt squat machine is better.

[mbasic]

The fact that the leg press is mainly quads and “more locked in” is exactly the reason I’d prioritize the hip belt squat rig over leg press. Not saying that the leg press is bad, but it’s a bit too specific.

Too specific? Why would you be upset about getting jacked quads? I don't get it.

If you’re using a machine to be an alternate for barbells, I’d think the hip belt is better. That’s basically what I’m saying.

But in your OP, you call it "hip belt machine"...and the guy is pretty much using a "machine".

...and the way the landmine setup is....both of of those hip belt setups take almost all the balance out of it.

Belt squats are meh IMO. And they're ususally touted by a few Oly gyms....and I still think they're meh.

[mgil]

The fact that the leg press is mainly quads and “more locked in” is exactly the reason I’d prioritize the hip belt squat rig over leg press. Not saying that the leg press is bad, but it’s a bit too specific.

Too specific? Why would you be upset about getting jacked quads? I don't get it.

If you’re using a machine to be an alternate for barbells, I’d think the hip belt is better. That’s basically what I’m saying.

But in your OP, you call it "hip belt machine"...and the guy is pretty much using a "machine".

...and the way the landmine setup is....both of of those hip belt setups take almost all the balance out of it.

Belt squats are meh IMO. And they're ususally touted by a few Oly gyms....and I still think they're meh.

I get tired of typing “machine” with my thumbs.

Rip advocates for gyms to have a leg press for the old/obese to build strength until they can squat with a barbell. Problem is getting the old and obese in and out of the typical 45 degree leg press. Further, as @Cody is clear about, the leg press is focused on the quads. The typical old/obese person needs a bit more complete movement. The hip belt mimics the squat better and allows for the arms to assist (with the machine above) for those who would struggle to air squat. The place where this falls short is the really feeble. But then I don’t know what that solution would be.

[michael]

Rip advocates for gyms to have a leg press for the old/obese to build strength until they can squat with a barbell. Problem is getting the old and obese in and out of the typical 45 degree leg press. Further, as @Cody is clear about, the leg press is focused on the quads. The typical old/obese person needs a bit more complete movement. The hip belt mimics the squat better and allows for the arms to assist (with the machine above) for those who would struggle to air squat. The place where this falls short is the really feeble. But then I don’t know what that solution would be.

Partial squats with incremental ROM increases. No machines needed.

[mgil]

Rip advocates for gyms to have a leg press for the old/obese to build strength until they can squat with a barbell. Problem is getting the old and obese in and out of the typical 45 degree leg press. Further, as @Cody is clear about, the leg press is focused on the quads. The typical old/obese person needs a bit more complete movement. The hip belt mimics the squat better and allows for the arms to assist (with the machine above) for those who would struggle to air squat. The place where this falls short is the really feeble. But then I don’t know what that solution would be.

Partial squats with incremental ROM increases. No machines needed.

Your buddy Rip says that doesn’t work.

[Les]

Rip advocates for gyms to have a leg press for the old/obese to build strength until they can squat with a barbell. Problem is getting the old and obese in and out of the typical 45 degree leg press. Further, as @Cody is clear about, the leg press is focused on the quads. The typical old/obese person needs a bit more complete movement. The hip belt mimics the squat better and allows for the arms to assist (with the machine above) for those who would struggle to air squat. The place where this falls short is the really feeble. But then I don’t know what that solution would be.

Partial squats with incremental ROM increases. No machines needed.

And if balance is an issue, or just squatting their body weight, hatfield squats could be good idea. The novice lifter can help pull themselves up with the handles.

[michael]

Rip advocates for gyms to have a leg press for the old/obese to build strength until they can squat with a barbell. Problem is getting the old and obese in and out of the typical 45 degree leg press. Further, as @Cody is clear about, the leg press is focused on the quads. The typical old/obese person needs a bit more complete movement. The hip belt mimics the squat better and allows for the arms to assist (with the machine above) for those who would struggle to air squat. The place where this falls short is the really feeble. But then I don’t know what that solution would be.

Partial squats with incremental ROM increases. No machines needed.

Your buddy Rip says that doesn’t work.

I think Andy Baker said that's what he does? I may be misremembering.

Found it. It was Andy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISgao34vNrk

[OCG]

Having used one of the Wenning hip belt squat machines, they're kind of awkward and feel tremendously weird. The belt really wants to pull or push you around, you have to find the perfect position. I'm not sure they would be a great choice for someone so weak they can't squat.

[Cody]

@mgil Fuck how Rip uses the machine. If you're buying a belt squat for 80 year olds, you're silly. If you're buying a leg press for 80 year olds, you're silly.

As Les mentioned (and as I would have if I knew this was going to be about old people), let them hold on to something and air squat. When they can do that, let them air squat without holding something. When they can do that, give them pink dumbbells, then kettlebells, then the empty bar.

Literally zero need for a machine of this caliber for old people. Further, it makes your earlier point about carrying 45 lb plates all over the place mute, cause old folks aren't loading up the plates if they aren't strong enough for the empty bar...

[gtl]

As Les mentioned (and as I would have if I knew this was going to be about old people), let them hold on to something and air squat. When they can do that, let them air squat without holding something. When they can do that, give them pink dumbbells, then kettlebells, then the empty bar.

That's actually how I've trained a few ppl.

I anchored a band to the pullup bar and had them hold the other end. Start squatting with a thicker band, progress to the smallest band, to bodyweight, then goblet squats before starting with an empty bar.