Issue with deadlifts regarding reping and maxing.

[Bolder]

Hello everyone,

Over some time, training deadlifts. I always noticed that I am able to rep out whatever is close to my one-rep max (for context or reference, I pull conventional, beltless with straps, and I do not do touch n go, but I rather stop and go), but however weirdly, I have always had trouble doing a one-rep max for my deadlift (and sometimes it won't budge off the floor).

So, for example, last week I was able to rep out with 170kg/375lb for 5 reps on deadlifts last week, but however, this week I was unable to rep or even budge 182.5kg/402lb off the ground (I've had these types of situations before, but however overtime I started noticing this, and want to correct this. Like how could I rep out something so close to my 1RM, but struggle actually doing a 1RM on the deadlifts). Anyway, my gym has bumper plates I lift with it, and the barbell, of course, is quite stiff (does this also impact the bar not leaving the floor?).

Also, I am wondering if anyone has ever faced this sort of problem? If you had any experiences that helped you fix this, please tell me how lol.

Also, I am wondering if this is a recovery issue as well (or if I was carrying over fatigue from last week). Would this also mean that I get easily fatigued and need a more low-fatigue type of deadlift program?

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I can think of two things:
- Hypothesis 1: If last week you did 5x170 (e1RM=197) and this week you could not budge 182 (e1RM<182), this could simply mean that your strength fluctuated from last week to this week. A fluctuation of (197-182)/182 = 8% is not improbable since your week to week strength can vary by as much as +/- 10%, and those fluctuations are completely normal because you're not a machine. Just keep training and accept the ups and downs.
- Hypothesis 2: You train mostly with sets of 5 and do not train often with singles so you're strong with sets of 5 and weak with singles. How does your programming look like in terms of intensities ?

[Bolder]

I can think of two things:
- Hypothesis 1: If last week you did 5x170 (e1RM=197) and this week you could not budge 182 (e1RM<182), this could simply mean that your strength fluctuated from last week to this week. A fluctuation of (197-182)/182 = 8% is not improbable since your week to week strength can vary by as much as +/- 10%, and those fluctuations are completely normal because you're not a machine. Just keep training and accept the ups and downs.
- Hypothesis 2: You train mostly with sets of 5 and do not train often with singles so you're strong with sets of 5 and weak with singles. How does your programming look like in terms of intensities ?

Thank you.

Yeah, it's sort of true that strength fluctuates and that makes sense.

It's sort of a mix-and-match. For a while I did singles and sometimes I did fives. However, in my early training career, I did use sets of 5s a lot. My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1 (which is the fourth week and I failed the top set today). There's no set intensity. Basically, it is Greg Nuckol's once-a-week beginner deadlift program from his 28 programs.

There was a time when I did high-frequency deadlifting five times a week, but I was also doing high-frequency squats and bench. My knees and elbows didn't feel the best from it... had a bit of low-back pain as well (of course deadlifting five times a week does that, lol). Well, they were submaximal work, but still quite punishing. So now my training is lower-frequency, higher-volume, and the intensity varies from moderate to high. Basically, doing the main lifts, but with more bodybuilding/accessory work.

[mbasic]

I think its as simple as that you personally ..... breaking it from the floor is the bottle-neck / 'weak' spot.

based on this:

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1

...it's not surprisening you have trouble with a heavy single or 1RMs.


I don't get the gist of the that scheme^, unless its just volume accumulation and then something is supposed to happen after this cycle.

I would start doing singles or doubles at 90-92%, maybe 1-3 set of that .... and then lighter volume 'rep work' work after.

[Hardartery]

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1 (which is the fourth week and I failed the top set today). There's no set intensity. Basically, it is Greg Nuckol's once-a-week beginner deadlift program from his 28 programs.

There was a time when I did high-frequency deadlifting five times a week, but I was also doing high-frequency squats and bench. My knees and elbows didn't feel the best from it... had a bit of low-back pain as well (of course deadlifting five times a week does that, lol). Well, they were submaximal work, but still quite punishing. So now my training is lower-frequency, higher-volume, and the intensity varies from moderate to high. Basically, doing the main lifts, but with more bodybuilding/accessory work.

So, none of this makes sense to me as a real programming choice. Seriously. Back off sets should involve less weight, less reps is just failing to finish the set. If you can do something for 10, and it's not a deload, you are still warming up and never getting to the top set. Compounds of any variety 5 times a week is just pointless unless you like being in pain and making no progress. Switch to literally any other program. It doesn't matter, pick one and it is going to be an improvement.

[ChrisMcCarthy1979]

When doing low rep sets it's not uncommon for the second rep to feel better than the first (as noted by many, especially Benni Magnusson). Some might put this down to pure Deadlift Voodoo, others might suggest a problem in set up, and others might even point to the fact that you've just proven you can pick it up means that you have less excuse not to do it again...

I'd suggest that as you get more experienced in pulling truly heavy singles this will go away.

[DanCR]

I sucked at DLing when I did it, and this probably is implied in the responses above. Anyway, I wonder if you’re doing something different, form-wise, in anticipation of the heavier weight, such as letting your hips dip in an effort to create more leg drive. Videos would help.

[mgil]

I think its as simple as that you personally ..... breaking it from the floor is the bottle-neck / 'weak' spot.

based on this:

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1

...it's not surprisening you have trouble with a heavy single or 1RMs.


I don't get the gist of the that scheme^, unless its just volume accumulation and then something is supposed to happen after this cycle.

I would start doing singles or doubles at 90-92%, maybe 1-3 set of that .... and then lighter volume 'rep work' work after.

Yeah, I don’t think the basic scheme is bad but the lack of “display of strength” sets might be keeping OP from pulling a true 1RM.

Also, grip can be a factor here. I know that if my grip is being wonky things don’t work in the deadlift.

[mbasic]

I think its as simple as that you personally ..... breaking it from the floor is the bottle-neck / 'weak' spot.

based on this:

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1

...it's not surprisening you have trouble with a heavy single or 1RMs.


I don't get the gist of the that scheme^, unless its just volume accumulation and then something is supposed to happen after this cycle.

I would start doing singles or doubles at 90-92%, maybe 1-3 set of that .... and then lighter volume 'rep work' work after.

Yeah, I don’t think the basic scheme is bad but the lack of “display of strength” sets might be keeping OP from pulling a true 1RM.

Also, grip can be a factor here. I know that if my grip is being wonky things don’t work in the deadlift.

he said he uses straps in the OP

good news is, all that volume might transmutate? into some heavy lifts if he starts playing with some heavier loads

[mgil]

Missed the straps part!

Anyhow, the volume may help, but those lighter sets have to be either:

1. Pulled with intent of displaying speed

2. Done “tempo” style with a focus on eccentric phase

Otherwise lighter reps in small sets don’t work as well as they could.

[acorn93]

Deadlifts are a cold hard bitch…easily my most volatile lift. For me some of it is mental. The fact that the hardest part of the lift (the bottom) is where I get to first feel the weight is surely part of it. Deficits helped and thinking about moving quickly after pulling the slack out helped me but it’s still a work in progress. I second @mgil that you need to pull those lighter sets quickly.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

When doing low rep sets it's not uncommon for the second rep to feel better than the first (as noted by many, especially Benni Magnusson). Some might put this down to pure Deadlift Voodoo, others might suggest a problem in set up, and others might even point to the fact that you've just proven you can pick it up means that you have less excuse not to do it again...

I'd suggest that as you get more experienced in pulling truly heavy singles this will go away.

I honestly believe that the first rep potentiates the nervous system, hence the effect you feel on the second rep.

[Bolder]

I think its as simple as that you personally ..... breaking it from the floor is the bottle-neck / 'weak' spot.

based on this:

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1

...it's not surprisening you have trouble with a heavy single or 1RMs.


I don't get the gist of the that scheme^, unless its just volume accumulation and then something is supposed to happen after this cycle.

I would start doing singles or doubles at 90-92%, maybe 1-3 set of that .... and then lighter volume 'rep work' work after.

I got that scheme from one of Greg Nukcol's 28 programs; it's the deadlift 1x Beg template.

Also, thanks for the heads up. Yes, I'll be starting a 1x1/2x3 scheme for deadlifts (already started doing that for squats) or I suppose I may do sets of 5 (but at a lighter RPE).

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1 (which is the fourth week and I failed the top set today). There's no set intensity. Basically, it is Greg Nuckol's once-a-week beginner deadlift program from his 28 programs.

There was a time when I did high-frequency deadlifting five times a week, but I was also doing high-frequency squats and bench. My knees and elbows didn't feel the best from it... had a bit of low-back pain as well (of course deadlifting five times a week does that, lol). Well, they were submaximal work, but still quite punishing. So now my training is lower-frequency, higher-volume, and the intensity varies from moderate to high. Basically, doing the main lifts, but with more bodybuilding/accessory work.

So, none of this makes sense to me as a real programming choice. Seriously. Back off sets should involve less weight, less reps is just failing to finish the set. If you can do something for 10, and it's not a deload, you are still warming up and never getting to the top set. Compounds of any variety 5 times a week is just pointless unless you like being in pain and making no progress. Switch to literally any other program. It doesn't matter, pick one and it is going to be an improvement.

I suppose that makes sense. Well, I got the template from Greg Nuckols (it probably is out of date).

Yeah, high-frequency programs hurt me...

High rep sets, yeah, usually doesn't make sense for deadlifts.

When doing low rep sets it's not uncommon for the second rep to feel better than the first (as noted by many, especially Benni Magnusson). Some might put this down to pure Deadlift Voodoo, others might suggest a problem in set up, and others might even point to the fact that you've just proven you can pick it up means that you have less excuse not to do it again...

I'd suggest that as you get more experienced in pulling truly heavy singles this will go away.

Yeah you're definitely onto something. Most likely, maybe it is the stretch reflex and the elasticity stored in the tendons or something.

I sucked at DLing when I did it, and this probably is implied in the responses above. Anyway, I wonder if you’re doing something different, form-wise, in anticipation of the heavier weight, such as letting your hips dip in an effort to create more leg drive. Videos would help.

It seems like you're describing the strongman style deadlifts. Anyway, it would be interesting to see how DL or whatever variations of DL goes for you.

I think its as simple as that you personally ..... breaking it from the floor is the bottle-neck / 'weak' spot.

based on this:

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1

...it's not surprisening you have trouble with a heavy single or 1RMs.


I don't get the gist of the that scheme^, unless its just volume accumulation and then something is supposed to happen after this cycle.

I would start doing singles or doubles at 90-92%, maybe 1-3 set of that .... and then lighter volume 'rep work' work after.

Yeah, I don’t think the basic scheme is bad but the lack of “display of strength” sets might be keeping OP from pulling a true 1RM.

Also, grip can be a factor here. I know that if my grip is being wonky things don’t work in the deadlift.

he said he uses straps in the OP

good news is, all that volume might transmutate? into some heavy lifts if he starts playing with some heavier loads

Gonna run a 1x1/2x3 scheme for 5 to 6 weeks and see how I go or unless if others here recommend something different.

Missed the straps part!

Anyhow, the volume may help, but those lighter sets have to be either:

1. Pulled with intent of displaying speed

2. Done “tempo” style with a focus on eccentric phase

Otherwise lighter reps in small sets don’t work as well as they could.

Will do and thank you. I'll keep that in mind. I do try to move my warm-up weights as fast as possible (should probably do more warm-up sets and work up closer to my max attempt), but I can get a little lazy.

Deadlifts are a cold hard bitch…easily my most volatile lift. For me some of it is mental. The fact that the hardest part of the lift (the bottom) is where I get to first feel the weight is surely part of it. Deficits helped and thinking about moving quickly after pulling the slack out helped me but it’s still a work in progress. I second @mgil that you need to pull those lighter sets quickly.

Indeed. Pulling a weight from a deadstop position. The deadlift, unlike the squats and bench, starts from a different position. Also, thanks, I'll keep pulling the slack in mind as well.

When doing low rep sets it's not uncommon for the second rep to feel better than the first (as noted by many, especially Benni Magnusson). Some might put this down to pure Deadlift Voodoo, others might suggest a problem in set up, and others might even point to the fact that you've just proven you can pick it up means that you have less excuse not to do it again...

I'd suggest that as you get more experienced in pulling truly heavy singles this will go away.

I honestly believe that the first rep potentiates the nervous system, hence the effect you feel on the second rep.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.

Anyway, thank you guys.

[DanCR]

I sucked at DLing when I did it, and this probably is implied in the responses above. Anyway, I wonder if you’re doing something different, form-wise, in anticipation of the heavier weight, such as letting your hips dip in an effort to create more leg drive. Videos would help.

It seems like you're describing the strongman style deadlifts. Anyway, it would be interesting to see how DL or whatever variations of DL goes for you.

What I meant was, if you’re suddenly doing something different when you go for a max - dropping your hips more than you otherwise would being just one example - you should not do that. Whatever form is getting you the heavy 5s should be the same form with which you pull a single. I don’t know that you’re changing anything of course; I just wondered.

[SaviorSelf]

My .02 cents

Heavy deadlifters do the deadlift with rounded backs. It makes the bottom part much easier at the expense of a harder lockout. Overall can do much more weight. Small rounding can help a lot

Maybe when you do a set of 5 or however many reps, your first rep is with a very straight or arched back, and as you progress through the set you start rounding

Suggestion: confirm this theory with video, and purposefully round from the get go

This vid is from a legendary deadlifter and about the topic of rounding

[mgil]

@SaviorSelf I tend to agree. Most of my reps have some thoracic rounding. If I switch to sumo and force a really upright back I’m much weaker off the floor.

It’s easier to straighten the back once the weight is past the knees.

[Bolder]

My .02 cents

Heavy deadlifters do the deadlift with rounded backs. It makes the bottom part much easier at the expense of a harder lockout. Overall can do much more weight. Small rounding can help a lot

Maybe when you do a set of 5 or however many reps, your first rep is with a very straight or arched back, and as you progress through the set you start rounding

Suggestion: confirm this theory with video, and purposefully round from the get go

This vid is from a legendary deadlifter and about the topic of rounding

This makes a lot of sense (I suppose the rounded back would also help with the bar speed off the floor).

Thank you very much.

[cgeorg]

I think @Hanley was planning to do this and crush his old PR.

[OverheadDeadlifts]

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1 (which is the fourth week and I failed the top set today). There's no set intensity. Basically, it is Greg Nuckol's once-a-week beginner deadlift program from his 28 programs.

Maybe you’ve already changed programs but an easy tweak to that program would be changing the back offs to timed singles. So for the 1x8 week you’d do 12x1 instead of 3x4 etc. You could also steal a few reps to help with the groove for the top set. So 3x1, 1x8 and then 9x1. Would probably benefit from dropping the weight by 5-10% for the singles when it’s the 1x5 and 1x3 weeks.

Something similar fixed the same issue for me. If you’re paying attention you’ll quickly figure out the form tweaks that make the first rep move fast. I think crappy singles are really prevalent in people who did mostly 5’s and were told to ‘squeeze the bar off the floor’ since at 90%+ you need a lot of oomph if you’re going to get the bar moving at all and it’s too heavy to have the luxury of using the first rep to feel things out.

[Bolder]

My programming at the moment is that on the first week I work up to a top set of 10, then 3 back-off sets of fives with the same weight (so 1x10/3x5), then the following weeks are 1x8/3x4, 1x5/3x2, and 1x3/3x1 (which is the fourth week and I failed the top set today). There's no set intensity. Basically, it is Greg Nuckol's once-a-week beginner deadlift program from his 28 programs.

Maybe you’ve already changed programs but an easy tweak to that program would be changing the back offs to timed singles. So for the 1x8 week you’d do 12x1 instead of 3x4 etc. You could also steal a few reps to help with the groove for the top set. So 3x1, 1x8 and then 9x1. Would probably benefit from dropping the weight by 5-10% for the singles when it’s the 1x5 and 1x3 weeks.

Something similar fixed the same issue for me. If you’re paying attention you’ll quickly figure out the form tweaks that make the first rep move fast. I think crappy singles are really prevalent in people who did mostly 5’s and were told to ‘squeeze the bar off the floor’ since at 90%+ you need a lot of oomph if you’re going to get the bar moving at all and it’s too heavy to have the luxury of using the first rep to feel things out.

I suppose it does make sense to make a load drop to manage fatigue. Well, I'm already doing a bit of that now, and let's see how long I can ride this wave. Thanks anyway.