Performance in "Power" Athletes

[TurtleBear]

Hey everyone,

So I am relatively new here (I created my account a little over a year ago). I have learned a ton from reading your guys' discussions and training logs. I have a question that I was originally going to ask in the "Stupid questions thread" but as I was drafting out my thoughts, I thought this could use its own thread.

A bit of context:
My background is in kyokushin karate and I've also dabbled in some kickboxing as well. I jumped on the starting strength bandwagon about 7 years ago. I did so because I was told that getting stronger would improve my performance in the ring. I was competing a lot at the time and was looking for any advantage I could get so I went full tilt into it. I got stronger (I actually responded really well to the Novice LP) and I definitely noticed an improvement in my competitive performance. Strength made me a better athlete and fighter.

Fast forward to my late twenties, in the last 6 years my wife and I went from 1 to 5 children and bought our first big people house. So my training has been hectic. In 2022 I joined this forum, barely did anything for a long time. But about 6 months ago I made a goal to stop worrying about programming so much and to just start doing something every day. That built into a weightloss goal which I am almost done with and as I go into the new year I want to do something more structured and less "spur of the moment"/WOD style.

So here is where we come to my question:
I still very much see lifting as a way to enhance my performance in kyokushin, but also in life in general. I probably wont ever step in a ring again, but I still want to keep improving. What does "Training for performance" look like for a power athlete? So not just fighters, but track n field, throwers etc.


I have two sort of "top contenders" as far as styles of training.
The first is what I would call "Strength favored GPP"
The worst of which would be Crossfit WODs and the very best which would be programming done by Brian Alsruhe.
These workouts are characterized by lots of variation, shorter rest periods, and this general sense of "working everything at once". If they have a strength focus than they typically take a program like 5/3/1 or Conjugate and then program the WODs around them.
If I had never learned anything else about lifting, then this is what I think i would default to.

But after learning more about training on this thread, I am not so sure that's productive. Or atleast productive long term.

The second contender is all the "Montana Method Nonsense"/"Sweet Smell of Easy" stuff I've read on here. (Apologies if I butcher this) but my understanding here is that repeatedly practicing lots of low fatigue high force reps makes you better at producing more force (go figure). This would (as I understand it) carry over into producing more force in a punch/throw/jump so long as you continued to practice the skill itself.

The only person I have ever coached is myself. So I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I welcome all evidence whether its anecdotal or evidence based or whatever. I just thought it would be a cool discussion.


Thanks for taking the time to read everyone
I hope you all have a wonderful Christmas

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

Hi there,
maybe the first question: what is your goal, and what performance measure will you use to determine if this goal has been achieved (i'm referring to your sentence "I still very much see lifting as a way to enhance my performance in kyokushin, but also in life in general. " ? For Karate, I understand that its your performance in the ring, but for life in general what are you trying to improve and how are you going to measure it ? Are you trying to look better, be leaner, more muscular etc ?

As far as weight training for throwers, there are some high level throwers that highlighted their weight training such as Ulf Timmermann

https://www.trackandfieldcoach.com/blog ... t-training

They seem to do a lot of (ballistic) bench, dumbbell benching at all angles, squats, box squats, hip snatches.

Also some of the founding members of the old Westside barbell were both throwers and powerlifters (George Frenn), here's how their training looked like (not safe for work):

https://plagueofstrength.com/george-fre ... de-series/

One of the "popular internet lifting programs" that was designed with power athletes in mind is the Juggernaut Method (Chad Wesley Smith is a thrower). I'd imagine that you'd lay your sports specific training on top of the program.

Now I've never thrown so I'm not sure about how a "normal person" would train for throwing and related sports. I think some members here are throwers, I'd be interested to hear how they train.

[TurtleBear]

Hi there,
maybe the first question: what is your goal, and what performance measure will you use to determine if this goal has been achieved (i'm referring to your sentence "I still very much see lifting as a way to enhance my performance in kyokushin, but also in life in general. " ? For Karate, I understand that its your performance in the ring, but for life in general what are you trying to improve and how are you going to measure it ? Are you trying to look better, be leaner, more muscular etc ?

Hey man, thanks for the response. I'm gonna read through the links right after this

For "life in general" I think there's a few boxes to check.
-General health: But overall I think most lifting/conditioning paradigm covers this.
-Being able to be useful: I know this is a bit cringey. But I don't mean it in the "hardships" way. I just mean that I want to be able to be there for my family, my kids, my grandkids etc. Having a large base of physical competence. But again, I think most basic lifting/conditioning paradigms would cover this.
-Staying athletic and having a high work capacity: Being able to jump, burpee, and kick into my later years would be cool. So would not getting tired.
-Getting stronger/more muscular over a long period of time. So slow steady progress in the gym and in martial arts training. I have spent a lot of time undoing the "competitive athletics" mindset over the last year. So steering away from "as much progress as I can get in the next 10 weeks because I have a fight coming up and then crashing because I am smoked, beat to shit, and potentially injured".

I think these both hit what I am trying to do individually, but also check a lot of boxes for anyone who wants to maintain training long term. Trying really hard to not make this a "program for me!!" thread. Just looking more at a general direction to focus on over the long haul.

[AlanMackey]

Hey everyone,

So I am relatively new here (I created my account a little over a year ago). I have learned a ton from reading your guys' discussions and training logs. I have a question that I was originally going to ask in the "Stupid questions thread" but as I was drafting out my thoughts, I thought this could use its own thread.

A bit of context:
My background is in kyokushin karate and I've also dabbled in some kickboxing as well. I jumped on the starting strength bandwagon about 7 years ago. I did so because I was told that getting stronger would improve my performance in the ring. I was competing a lot at the time and was looking for any advantage I could get so I went full tilt into it. I got stronger (I actually responded really well to the Novice LP) and I definitely noticed an improvement in my competitive performance. Strength made me a better athlete and fighter.

Fast forward to my late twenties, in the last 6 years my wife and I went from 1 to 5 children and bought our first big people house. So my training has been hectic. In 2022 I joined this forum, barely did anything for a long time. But about 6 months ago I made a goal to stop worrying about programming so much and to just start doing something every day. That built into a weightloss goal which I am almost done with and as I go into the new year I want to do something more structured and less "spur of the moment"/WOD style.

So here is where we come to my question:
I still very much see lifting as a way to enhance my performance in kyokushin, but also in life in general. I probably wont ever step in a ring again, but I still want to keep improving. What does "Training for performance" look like for a power athlete? So not just fighters, but track n field, throwers etc.


I have two sort of "top contenders" as far as styles of training.
The first is what I would call "Strength favored GPP"
The worst of which would be Crossfit WODs and the very best which would be programming done by Brian Alsruhe.
These workouts are characterized by lots of variation, shorter rest periods, and this general sense of "working everything at once". If they have a strength focus than they typically take a program like 5/3/1 or Conjugate and then program the WODs around them.
If I had never learned anything else about lifting, then this is what I think i would default to.

But after learning more about training on this thread, I am not so sure that's productive. Or atleast productive long term.

The second contender is all the "Montana Method Nonsense"/"Sweet Smell of Easy" stuff I've read on here. (Apologies if I butcher this) but my understanding here is that repeatedly practicing lots of low fatigue high force reps makes you better at producing more force (go figure). This would (as I understand it) carry over into producing more force in a punch/throw/jump so long as you continued to practice the skill itself.

The only person I have ever coached is myself. So I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I welcome all evidence whether its anecdotal or evidence based or whatever. I just thought it would be a cool discussion.


Thanks for taking the time to read everyone
I hope you all have a wonderful Christmas

I would give Pavel Tsatsouline and Dan John's programs a try: Power to the People, Easy Strength, etc... Even 5/3/1 5s Pro + 5x5 FSL using a very low TM (~80%).

[DCR]

^ Was going to suggest Wendler's recent stuff as well, given that the past few years his focus has been on training around / to supplement one's sport specific activity. I don't know how much 5/3/1 Forever would set one back, but maybe worth the purchase for ideas.