At what precentage of 1 RM

[dara]

Your opinnion on what precentage to start rising from 3x3 to 13x10 and how much strength can be made?
Looking like this ( Doug Hepurne style)
3x3
2x3 1x4
1x3 2x4
3x4
2x4 1x5
1x4 2x5
3x5
2x5 1x6
1x5 2x6
3x6
2x6 1x7
1x6 2x7
3x7
2x7 1x8
1x7 2x8
3x8
2x8 1x9
1x8 2x9
3x9
2x9 1x10
1x9 2x10
3x10
Or just ading sets 3x3 to 10x3

[mgil]

Welcome aboard, @dara.

What are your goals using this style of programming?

If you start the process at 75% of your 1RM, then you’ll have made no true 1RM difference according to the Epley formula. Note: I think this would be starting too high given the later sets are going to be pretty high stress.

My guess would be to start around 70% and track RPE/RIR. If you were to end the program at an RPE 8 or less, you probably made strength gains.

[dara]

For increasing strength and bit of hypertrophy, when come to 3x10 or 10x3 if increasing reps then test and increase weight

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

@dara How much experience with weight training do you have ? How strong are you ? Also, did you come up with this particular scheme or did you read about it somewhere ?

[DCR]

This:

Your opinnion on what precentage to start rising from 3x3 to 3x10 and how much strength can be made?
Looking like this ( Doug Hepurne style)
3x3
2x3 1x4
1x3 2x4
3x4
2x4 1x5
1x4 2x5
3x5
2x5 1x6
1x5 2x6
3x6
2x6 1x7
1x6 2x7
3x7
2x7 1x8
1x7 2x8
3x8
2x8 1x9
1x8 2x9
3x9
2x9 1x10
1x9 2x10
3x10

Is a very different thing from this:

Or just ading sets 3x3 to 10x3

The latter option is Hepburn-y in that he does have programs in which you add sets each session, at the same weight, until reaching a prescribed amount, although I believe they’re done with singles. I guess no reason that you couldn’t try something similar with triples. His most popular program, in which you bring 8x2 to 8x3, over eight sessions in four weeks, has you start with 80% of 1RM. I’d think with your proposal you’d start somewhere around there.

In my experience, the former option simply won’t work, unless you’re a newbie, or the initial 3x3 isn’t even remotely challenging, in which case what’s the point. (I guess a third option is if these are squats or deadlifts and you’re permitting rest/pause work, but that seems like a recipe for hospitalization.) Trying to turn 8s into 10s, or if you’re newer / not quite as strong, maybe 6s into 10s, is possible and worthwhile if your goal is to build muscle, but you can lay out any proposed progression you want and 3 reps at a given weight just is not gonna become 10 reps at that weight unless you spend some time getting significantly stronger (i.e. being able to perform 3 reps at a much higher weight).

I’m making up these numbers / not referring to any actual chart, but just as an example, if you can bench 200x3 and that’s a max or close to it, you’re not turning that into 200x10 until you can bench something like 250x3.

[Hardartery]

Your opinnion on what precentage to start rising from 3x3 to 13x10 and how much strength can be made?
Looking like this ( Doug Hepurne style)
3x3
2x3 1x4
1x3 2x4
3x4
2x4 1x5
1x4 2x5
3x5
2x5 1x6
1x5 2x6
3x6
2x6 1x7
1x6 2x7
3x7
2x7 1x8
1x7 2x8
3x8
2x8 1x9
1x8 2x9
3x9
2x9 1x10
1x9 2x10
3x10
Or just ading sets 3x3 to 10x3

Not sure what you're getting at, but in Doug Hepburn's book, which I did read, he doesn't add sets. He has the sets unchanging, he adds reps until he hits the target number in every set, and then he adds weight and starts over. It's a long form periodization, and he would sometimes switch it up to a different Plan B for a cycle. He also only had 8 sets in the program. And honestly, it's too much. It is conditioning by volume and it didn't actually increase my lifts particularly well. If the goal is to look like you lift, this will help with that, but if you want to improve in strength or look forward to a session it will not.

[dlocas7]

Hi dara! Welcome to Exodus Strength!

It is impossible to really give elements of answer to your question without knowing what your lifts look like. Your main goal is strength according to what you wrote.

What you're planning to do is to increase the total volume you're doing with a given working weight. That's the basic idea regardless of the sets/reps schemes. If you're starting out or are still far from your potential, you're very likely to see gains from slowly adding reps over time to your training weights. If you're really new to training, you don't need to make things complicated. All you need is to take a weight you could do 8-10 reps with and practice your technique with sets of 4-5 reps and you'll probably gain both strength and mass as a newbie.

When I was relatively new to lifting, I would start out with a moderately heavy 5 x 3 reps and wait a bit until the weight started to feel a bit easier before adding reps, then I would do 5 x 4 until I got a little bit better, then I would do a full 5 x 5. On the deadlift, I remember practicing pulls with five triples at 200 lbs. I eventually found myself doing a straight 5 x 5 at 430 a couple of years later with a max well above 500. I started lifting at 41.

The most important thing I learned was to know when to back off and do a lighter session. I strongly recommend that you keep a training log and take note of how your body responds to training. This way, you'll learn a lot about yourself. The general principles are the same for everyone, especially when starting out, but there are individual differences. Only experience will teach you what you respond best too, and it's okay to have a good program, not necessarily optimal, and still make some progress.

I remember getting very tired after doing a straight 5 x 5 with that kind of weight on the deadlift. I tried a ramp-up, going from 350 to 430 and adding 20 pounds each set, and it was better and allowed me to move ahead a bit.

You can ramp up your weights and slowly add reps over time, going from 5-6 triples to 5-6 sets of 6, and then bumping all your weights up. Let's say your best overhead triple is a strict 185 x 3. When you train, you can work in 10-pound increments and do 125, 135, 145, 155, 165 and 175 all triples, the last set being just a bit below your limit. If you properly warm up with 60-100 pounds (sets of 3-5) before your first set at 125, even that first set will give you some benefits if you really focus on techique and bar acceleration. By the time you're able to do 175 x 5 with 1-3 reps in the tank, it will be likely that you've made some headway. Doing multiple work sets of 3-6 reps tends to strike a good balance of strength and mass for most natty lifters.

That's just one example. There are many different styles of progression you can do. Pick one that you will enjoy doing so you'll look forward to your training. I personally have no problem with doing 10 sets of 3 with the same weight and I know that some other lifters will be turned into a mummy by set # 6 or 7. These lifters will remain a lot more motivated doing something else such as ramping up weights and finishing with just a couple of heavy sets. It is very important to remain motivated. If you love what you do in the gym, you'll naturally be in a better disposition for good lifting.

The overall training process has you increasing the stress level over time. Sooner or later, you hit a wall where you just can't add weight or reps, and doing more sets will just bury you deeper. At that point, you need to start back easier and build back up with the intent of reaching a new wall that will be higher than the previous one. This applies regardless of the sets & reps you do.

Personally, if I can handle a given weight for 3 x 3 and get to the point where I can do 3 x 4 with the same level of effort (2-3 reps in tank for example), then I'll be pleased with my results as this would be an improvement. Only a novice can turn 3 x 3 into 3 x 10 within a reasonably short time; a novice or a lifter who returns after a long layoff.

[Zak]

You indicated strength is a primary goal and as such, I would advise the following:

1. Consider a single top set, something heavy but manageable for 1-3 reps around RPE 7-8 or 85-90%.
2. If you like the Hepburn-style progression, I'd do it after the top set but significantly narrow the set and rep ranges you're considering. Something like 3-6 sets of 2-3. If you want a really good example of how to set this up, Andy Baker's GGWII program (available for purchase on his site) is set up this way and is a great program.
3. How your training week is set up/how frequently you're doing the lifts is going to dictate whether this kind of thing works and how well. For my part, if I was doing anything like this it'd probably be the main lift once a week with a Hepburn-style scheme, and then a lightened/disadvantaged variation later in the week for higher reps. I'd probably only deadlift the one time and chase it with a set or two of RDLs/stiff-legs/GMs.
4. I'd deload after you hit the top end of your range because this kind of thing can do a number on your joints and they may need that recovery-focused week.

Just one man's opinion. Welcome.

[dara]

Thanks for answers people, im relatvely new to trainin done 5x5 linear progression this is what i come up with based on Doug Hepburne increasing one rep a workout here is link https://thibarmy.com/hepburn-layering-strength-size/
it was plan to start at 5 rep max with 3x3 then add one rep each workout or one set.
Im also interested in AMRAP sets start at 75% increasing intensity every workout maybe do some back of set?

[mgil]

AMRAP work isn’t going to translate into display of strength very quickly.

If you’ve had some success with 5x5 stuff, I’d just start pivoting off that first. I don’t know what your lift rotation is, but you might do well to introduce variants at lighter weights and cycle stress that way while also learning new lifts. Sometimes simply getting better at just moving well can result in better 1RM numbers.

HLM or other Starr 5x5 programs might be the better option for now.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

@Zak this is great advice across the board.

@dara If you're relatively new to training I'd recommend you start by following a few template style programs to the letter, for instance one of the Barbell Medicine templates, one of the Average to Savage 2.0 templates, one of the RTS templates or something similar. Once you've done a few of those you can start customizing your program because you'll have information on how you respond to different programming strategies.