The Anxiety Thread

[RedFinn]

(I am more or less agnostic, but militant atheism is weird to me. I think there is possibly some significant latent brainpower in the "religious part" of the brain.)

The awe-inspiring headfuck of consciousness is all I need to trigger religious-like emotion. Even if it's just an emergent property of counter-entropic living systems....or whatever. It's fucking cool.

I've never thought about consciousness that much, but I can sort of see what you're saying. For me, the things that can cause the strongest feelings of being overwhelmed are certain music and nature (perhaps the sky, in particular; there's something about looking up at the stars and feeling so small and insignificant and far away from things.)

Amazing because it makes the trip more enjoyable, or because it increases the beneficial effect of the trip? (Note the implicit, possibly unfounded assumption that those two goals may be in conflict.) I feel like music would reduce the value of the trip because it would impede the "scrambling" of the brain that I referred to. But I can't be sure of this.

I listened to late Beethoven. It WAS the trip (or, rather that stage of the trip). I remember feeling strong empathy for and connection to Beethoven. And the sublime element of the music was almost unbearably beautiful (like I think B's late works are his communication of his "religious experience").

I didn't get any brain scrambling. And my brain scrambles pretty easily (weed scrambles it pretty effectively). But I really think the experience helped massively.

I'm happy for you. I may consider trying a trip while listening to music one day. I just seem to remember my mental and emotional state being somewhat volatile (in the sense that I would have certain feelings and think about a certain topic, and then I find myself in another world, thinking about something else and feeling other things). Therefore I have concerns that whatever music I pick will be something I won't want to listen to a little while later, and then I can't imagine wanting to fumble with my phone and try to pick something else to listen to.

It sounds like your trips are more calm than mine.

My subjective opinion of my trips is that parts of my brain that don't usually fire and connect, are made to fire and connect by the mushroom trip. That's why I feel it creates a real opportunity to sweep away bad habits (and perhaps things more ingrained than the word "habit" implies, like destructive patterns in interpersonal relationships, perhaps).

I am still slightly concerned that mushroom trips could cause or enhance certain mental illnesses, but I am tentatively planning to do another 4-6 gram trip at some point. I liked sitting in the shade on a nice summer day.

[EggMcMuffin]

I am still slightly concerned that mushroom trips could cause or enhance certain mental illnesses, but I am tentatively planning to do another 4-6 gram trip at some point. I liked sitting in the shade on a nice summer day.

This is why I don't like the fact that they're illegal. I want to try them because I have chronic depression but I'm also scared I may trigger a latent psychotic or manic episode. I've heard in the Netherlands you can get screened pretty extensively before trying them since you won't get Mr. Crimestopper breaking your ribs and throwing you in jail for 1000000 years for eating some weird fungus

[Hanley]

I've never thought about consciousness that much

Oh man. It's the central headfuck of my life. Here's a beautiful articulation of the headfuck:

http://consc.net/papers/facing.html

[Hanley]

I'm also scared I may trigger a latent psychotic or manic episode.

It's a legitimate concern. I would have been screened out of the Johns Hopkins studies because my aunt had schizophrenia. But I think the risk of enduring mental illness is super overblown.

Here's some survey data on "bad trips":

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27578767/

Lots of "bad trips". Very little psychosis.

[Culican]

One can learn a lot from the "bad trips."

[Root]

Advices:

Trip with friends. Friends you trust, who are also tripping and have more experience with it than you do

Avoid non-tripping people

Put your phone in a drawer and don't touch it until you're done

Be outside. Rivers and trees are really cool.

Have an activity: something grounding to turn your attention to. Go on a hike, decide you're going to gather caterpillars, find the orangest birch around, kick a ball around with your friend. You probably will drift towards something else, but don't just sit there thinking about your trip

Try a low dose. Just let it enhance something you do normally: camping, cooking, hiking, talking with good friends, listening to music, exercising (maybe not with heavy weights?) Go to a concert with a good light show. See how it affects you when you're in your element. Do that a few times before you decide to have a trip-inducing amount.

[JonA]

I had some success working through anxiety issues using cognitive methods. It was lame, but I bought a book and diligently worked through all the exercises, basically a linear progression for anxiety management. I have no idea how that could be applied to flying though.

My anxieties were all more social related and it was fairly easy to manufacture a progression of situations that trigger anxiety. (like walking into a store and "accidentally" knocking something off a shelf and picking it up again, or waiting several seconds when a red light changes to green until the car behind you honks.)

[RedFinn]

Thanks for the link Hanley. I'll read it.

One can learn a lot from the "bad trips."

I'm inclined to agree. My 4 gram trip was pretty unpleasant but I think it was good for me.

---

Another thing I want to say: be careful with physical activity during the trip. In my experience, physical coordination and balance can be impaired, perhaps significantly. (I have seen one person fall while trying to walk.) It's potentially unsafe. Be careful.

Re: depression, I think the reward mechanism in my brain was broken for a long time (which is related to depression, at least to me), and I recall feeling that the mushrooms helped heal that part of my brain. So yeah, I think people who are depressed should at least think about it.

[Hamburgerfan]

My only cannabis experience was with way too many edibles. Just made me want to lay on the couch and massage my legs for hours. Though I did type of bunch of meaningless new age mysticism on my phone.

[mouse]

My only cannabis experience was with way too many edibles. Just made me want to lay on the couch and massage my legs for hours. Though I did type of bunch of meaningless new age mysticism on my phone.

I'm not a huge fan of THC during the waking hours...

Now right before I go to sleep... then it's fantastic...

[GlasgowJock]

I had some success working through anxiety issues using cognitive methods. It was lame, but I bought a book and diligently worked through all the exercises, basically a linear progression for anxiety management. I have no idea how that could be applied to flying though.

My anxieties were all more social related and it was fairly easy to manufacture a progression of situations that trigger anxiety. (like walking into a store and "accidentally" knocking something off a shelf and picking it up again, or waiting several seconds when a red light changes to green until the car behind you honks.)

I've done similar though still prefer to skull a bunch of Propranolol every day.

This is why I don't like the fact that they're illegal. I want to try them because I have chronic depression but I'm also scared I may trigger a latent psychotic or manic episode. I've heard in the Netherlands you can get screened pretty extensively before trying them since you won't get Mr. Crimestopper breaking your ribs and throwing you in jail for 1000000 years for eating some weird fungus

The Danes seem pretty open mind to this stuff as well, I converse with a bunch of them online playing games. Certainly seems healthier than misusing alcohol/ opioids.

[DCR]

Survived the flights there and back, mostly because they were very smooth with the seatbelt sign off the very large majority of the time (except for the landing back in LGA which seems to always require banking around the airport and nearly made me vomit), and more importantly because I had amazing seat mates on both flights, who talked to me from take off to landing. The first one was a flight attendant on private planes, i.e. the ones that actually crash, and so I couldn’t really be a pussy about things. The flights were around three hours each, and I’m reasonably confident that I could handle that distance going forward with slightly reduced anxiety. Five and half hours across the country or the like is still gonna take some real doing.

@Hanley, your experience regarding the interconnectedness of things was precisely the enlightened part of my first trip. I understood that everything is God.

@LoudMuffin, I agree with the others that you’re not gonna have a psychotic break doing any remotely reasonable amount of shrooms. That said, I have been exposed a bit to the idea of ptsd from a bad trip. I did consider at one point that all my anxieties seemed to arise not long after my two awful trips, but I really do think it was more age and realizing I was mortal and contemplating that for the first time.

@Hamburgerfan, I totally stopped fucking with edibles after having multiple panic attacks and near panic attacks after taking them. I’ve not read on the issue but, anecdotally, I undestand that I’m not alone.

[Culican]

I think the problem with edibles is that they take a while to work so people tend to keep eating them because they 'haven't felt anything yet." The when they do feel it, it hits hard and lasts a lot longer than what you would get from smoking.

[EggMcMuffin]

@LoudMuffin, I agree with the others that you’re not gonna have a psychotic break doing any remotely reasonable amount of shrooms. That said, I have been exposed a bit to the idea of ptsd from a bad trip. I did consider at one point that all my anxieties seemed to arise not long after my two awful trips, but I really do think it was more age and realizing I was mortal and contemplating that for the first time.

Yeah, my deal is basically I've been freaking out super hard about mortality and shit a lot over the last two years, to the point I can barely function sometimes. I've been contemplating that fact on and off since I was like 6 (lmao) but didn't really fully grasp what it meant until recently. What I'm considering tripping for is to attempt to alleviate the anxieties that arose from your bad trips. Ironic, innit bruv?

I've been told that it helps A LOT for people, a lot of people I know who have done heavy psychedelics (enough to experience ego death) don't seem to care about dying very much anymore, and not in like a suicidal way. They just are like "oh yeah, well" and I've heard a lot of them just develop a strong feeling that this weird mortal coil of doing your fahves, Riperoticas and unaffordable rents isn't all there is.

It might be all bullshit. I don't know. A lot of people have specifically told me personally, knowing my habits and thought patterns that they would help me out A LOT. But I'm kind of kooky to begin with, so I'm scared of Leaving Humanity Behind

[DCR]

I think the problem with edibles is that they take a while to work so people tend to keep eating them because they 'haven't felt anything yet." The when they do feel it, it hits hard and lasts a lot longer than what you would get from smoking.

That’s 100% true, but in my case all it seems to take is 10mg for me to be a wreck. I did have good experiences on 2.5mg, which is taking next to nothing. Sorta just get that warm buzz you get from a big glass of red wine.

[Culican]

Yeah, my deal is basically I've been freaking out super hard about mortality and shit a lot over the last two years, to the point I can barely function sometimes. I've been contemplating that fact on and off since I was like 6 (lmao) but didn't really fully grasp what it meant until recently. What I'm considering tripping for is to attempt to alleviate the anxieties that arose from your bad trips. Ironic, innit bruv?

I've been told that it helps A LOT for people, a lot of people I know who have done heavy psychedelics (enough to experience ego death) don't seem to care about dying very much anymore, and not in like a suicidal way. They just are like "oh yeah, well" and I've heard a lot of them just develop a strong feeling that this weird mortal coil of doing your fahves, Riperoticas and unaffordable rents isn't all there is.

It might be all bullshit. I don't know. A lot of people have specifically told me personally, knowing my habits and thought patterns that they would help me out A LOT. But I'm kind of kooky to begin with, so I'm scared of Leaving Humanity Behind

I did them with a good friend of mine. We drove to the San Bernardino Mountains (lived in the Los Angeles area at the time), parked the car and hiked for an hour and then ate the mushrooms.

From our location you could look out over the Mohave Desert which seemed to stretch infinitely to the horizon. As the mushrooms took hold I all of the sudden felt that I finally understood everything. That to meant to me for some reason that I must be dead. Turned to my friend and said, "I know what happened now. We got in a car wreck on the way up here and were killed. We're dead." I said it in a matter of fact sort of way and was totally calm and accepting of the whole thing. That sort of thing sticks with you long after the trip.

[conssam]

I totally get it - the feeling of not being in control can be daunting. One thing my therapist told me was to focus on grounding exercises, like counting objects around me or feeling the texture of my seat. It sounds simple, but it diverts your mind from overwhelming thoughts and helps you stay present. I also create playlists of calming music or podcasts to distract me, and don't forget those noise-cancelling headphones if you have 'em.

If the anxiety persists and starts affecting other areas of your life, you might consider seeking professional help. Like you, I faced similar challenges, and opted for dbt therapy in NYC.

[hector]

We can start with flying, which I’ll be doing tomorrow despite every fiber of my being resisting. Tips?

Telling me that it’s the safest way to travel and that my car is far more dangerous doesn’t help. I control my car, and it doesn’t ride ten thousand feet above hard ground.

Usually I remind myself that the airline staff do this shit every day of the year, so I should just stop being a pussy.

I get big time anxiety around flying, not because of safety or any fear of being in the air, but being stuck in a metal can and not being able to have freedom of movement or be in control. These days, I:

1) Only schedule flights in the afternoon, or as late as possible in the day when I get less generally anxious about doing 'scheduled' events
2) Show up 2 hours before, drink 2 glasses of red wine, which usually makes me stop giving a shit
3) Snag first class tickets when I can, they let you do whatever the F you want up there, sometimes only a $200 upgrade and worth every penny to remove that existential dread of mine

1,000x yes.

Every flight, every time, I always envision my death before and during takeoff.

Flying on a bunch of developing-world/foreign airlines I was initially worried that their safety standards might be sub par. But the stewardesses were much more attractive. And I decided I was ok with that tradeoff.

[DCR]

Flying on a bunch of developing-world/foreign airlines I was initially worried that their safety standards might be sub par. But the stewardesses were much more attractive. And I decided I was ok with that tradeoff.

Yes. Icelandair, holy shit.