TRY ROWING/CHINUPS/PULLDOWNS WITH STRAPS

[Hardartery]

In my case the use of different trowels as well as hammers was really the main thing. It's not just isometrics, it's turning and maneuvering the tools with mortar on them, pinch gripping blocks repetitively, holding bricks both to lay them on place and to break them with a hammer. Holding hammers, especially 2 and 3 pound single hand sledges with thick wooden handles. The massive amount of forearm abuse that goes on when running slick finish plaster which requires holding the handle while applying massive amounts of force to the edge of the blade to polish the curing plaster. Swinging hammers also requires more than holding them, there is wrist involvement depending on the angle you need to strike on. Old Masons all have thick wrists and crazy grip strength and rarely do any curls other than the 12oz variety.
Plate curls work, not because they are curls but because of the force applied to the wrist with that disadvantaged leverage of holding the plate by it's edge. As far as just grip strength goes, John Brookfield is hard to match and he isn't doing any curls either. He can, however, break a 1/2" cold chisel with his bare hands among other things. I know the bucket of sand thing was pretty popular for a while as far as working the full ROM with the hands. I never found the wrist curls or extensions to do a lot, honestly. They seem good for rehab/prehab but not for building IME.

Isometrics can also give you some freaky looking forearms. I was a mover for a while in my early 20s which requires a lot of static holds with relatively open fingers. It looked like there was an egg under the skin below my elbow. I got a long stronger after that and eventually hit a 300kg deadlift with hookgrip. I'd bet I have stronger crushing strength in the hands now, but my forearms still don't look like that.

That stuff work really great for forearms. I have never noticed much benefit from isometrics from other stuff but everything in the forearms seems to do really well on them.

[slowmotion]

Maybe it's because of my age, but I find general grip strength to be just as important to me as the general strength I get from lifting regularly. It all goes together. I don't lift as heavy as the rest you you here, but if my grip was so weak that I had problems holding on to the bar when deadlifting or barbell rowing then that would feel really bad to me. Then I would have done something to fix the problem and get a stronger grip.
I do use straps if I do heavy rack pulls or SGDL, or if my hands are really sore from too much deadlifting, but that's it. Usually the straps stays in the drawer.

[Renascent]

Hardartery, wouldn't some kind of direct biceps work be beneficial from an injury prevention standpoint?

I would do some reverse curls with the Axle sometimes, but that was for grip and the Brachialis. It seemed like I got plenty of indirect biceps work just in the course of training and working. It also seemed, anecdotally obviously, that the guys with the biceps injuries were also the guys that had spent time training them (Either before SM or during). I'm not saying that it is accurate, it would seem to be a good idea to train them for injury prevention but the bigger concern was causing a lapse in form and trying to use them when you shouldn't. Breaking form tends to be pushing the weight onto muscles that you perceive as stronger or that you are more accustomed to using because you are taxing a limit somewhere. You GM a Squat because your legs hit a sticking point for example. We really didn't want to deal with biceps tears. One guy from NC quit competing because of biceps issues. He had a lot of old scar tissue from years of previous training (Dude was huge) and it kept resulting in minor tears. He was basically walking around with one arm or the other in a sling for a year or so and them packed it in. He didn't seem to get much win out of biceps work to get around the issue. I'm not saying that he represents everyone's experience, but we were all nervous.

You are always writing cool shit.
I appreciate you posting here.

I agree.

[Wilhelm]

I'd have to use a step stool to wrap straps for pullups.
Grip is absolutely not the limiting factor with them either.
This would just add a layer of bother to something i'm doing 3 to 4 times every week.

[KarlM]

I'd have to use a step stool to wrap straps for pullups.
Grip is absolutely not the limiting factor with them either.
This would just add a layer of bother to something i'm doing 3 to 4 times every week.

This is my experience as well. Grip isn't a limiting factor for any lift, and strapping up is just a PITA. I realize I'm not deadlifting 600+, where this might change. But even if that ever happens, I doubt grip will be an issue.

Back in the day when I was serious about Judo, there was a guy in the club that worked a manual labor job. I don't know exactly what it was, but his hands were callused (in the manual labor way, not the I lift weights way, if you know what I mean), and he had thick joints, especially in his hands. Anyway, at the time I was pretty good at the whole grip fighting game, and could usually win the grip and easily strip grips off my gi. But not this guy's. It was insane. He effortlessly held my gi like I was a child.

[Wilhelm]

I'd have to use a step stool to wrap straps for pullups.
Grip is absolutely not the limiting factor with them either.
This would just add a layer of bother to something i'm doing 3 to 4 times every week.

This is my experience as well. Grip isn't a limiting factor for any lift, and strapping up is just a PITA. I realize I'm not deadlifting 600+, where this might change. But even if that ever happens, I doubt grip will be an issue.

Back in the day when I was serious about Judo, there was a guy in the club that worked a manual labor job. I don't know exactly what it was, but his hands were callused (in the manual labor way, not the I lift weights way, if you know what I mean), and he had thick joints, especially in his hands. Anyway, at the time I was pretty good at the whole grip fighting game, and could usually win the grip and easily strip grips off my gi. But not this guy's. It was insane. He effortlessly held my gi like I was a child.

I use straps for working sets of deadlift, but because i hook grip and it saves wear and tear on the thumbs.
Hooking for reps is pretty pointless as well, as far as the grip goes for competition.

[KarlM]

I use straps for working sets of deadlift, but because i hook grip and it saves wear and tear on the thumbs.
Hooking for reps is pretty pointless as well, as far as the grip goes for competition.

I agree using hook for reps isn’t really providing a significant training stress and isn’t necessary. However, I’ve never found my thumbs get beat up and for whatever reason I don’t feel any pain in them when I hook so I always hook for all my reps. Strapping up is a PITA.

That said, in some cases it seems like strapping changes the technique enough to matter. It seems like for a lot of people the bar sits further down in their hands, making the reps easier, and making the slack pull part of the lift different. It doesn’t look like that’s happening in your lifts. Do you actively think about not letting the bar hang lower in your hands when you strap?

[Wilhelm]

I use straps for working sets of deadlift, but because i hook grip and it saves wear and tear on the thumbs.
Hooking for reps is pretty pointless as well, as far as the grip goes for competition.

I agree using hook for reps isn’t really providing a significant training stress and isn’t necessary. However, I’ve never found my thumbs get beat up and for whatever reason I don’t feel any pain in them when I hook so I always hook for all my reps. Strapping up is a PITA.

That said, in some cases it seems like strapping changes the technique enough to matter. It seems like for a lot of people the bar sits further down in their hands, making the reps easier, and making the slack pull part of the lift different. It doesn’t look like that’s happening in your lifts. Do you actively think about not letting the bar hang lower in your hands when you strap?

Well, i do wrap them fully tight.
On the other hand, hook has the bar pretty low in the hand already.
If anything the straps have it higher.
Marginal difference though.

But for me, i do not enjoy sets w/ hook, so the slight bother of the straps is worth it when i'm on my regular program of 5 sets of 4 after the top single.

[slowmotion]

I find that for me deadlifts feels heavier if I use straps. Is that just me?

[ChasingCurls69]

The bar sits lower for my hook grip than it does for straps. Straps end up being the same spot as DOH. I think figure 8's would be closer than a hook or let the bar sit lower than hook, which seems to make a huge difference when pulling sumo for reps compared to conventional.

[mbasic]

Some things I'll add:

I can easily DOH DL 315 for reps, but yet, I have never liked doing non-strapped RDL. Something about holding onto the bar, and reversing the load in the bottom, the quick bounce of the SRF, it doesn't seem to want to stay in the grip (very well). Strapped RDLs are much much better.

I'm starting to do lat pull downs with heavier weights("loads") for more reps than what body weight pull-ups would be. Chinups/pullup I have always done in the past without straps no problem, but I will always end the set "in the ends of my fingers"....but have never 'failed' due to grip (215# man doing 10-14 pullups/chinups PR). I used to do weighted pullups/chins with +50 to +80 pounds for 3 to 6 reps and strapless ... that wasn't a problem either.

But the ROM on the aforementioned rowing/lat pulldowns is cleaner and longer than pullups and most chin ups. With pulldowns and certain rows it seems a lot better.

Also, some pulldown bars, where the bar hooks to the cable, there is a swivel sleeve on the bar so it can pivot a bit.
That might be fucking with you/me a bit, as the bar can sorta rotate like a barbell sleeve (unwinding/unrolling effect).
Anything neutral grip, generally don't/won't need straps at all, as the unwinding/unrolling effect doesn't take place. (neutral grip attachments, trap bar for instance).

There's a "booth" at your local state fair/circus where you pay $10 to see if you can dead hang from a bar for a certain amount of time to win $100 or something like that. The rub is pullup bar is on a rollered/bearinged sleeve, and the diameter is a bit bigger than a normal chinup bar. Makes a big difference in how long (a "layman") could hang there. (I'm sure they disallow mixed grip; I wonder if they know about hook, or if the bar is too big for that).

Walking Dumbbell lunges? .... the dumbbells I'm using are only 40-50# each, but the other day I used straps the other day with the 50's, and man that was a lot better. Seems ridiculous I know, but at the end of a leg workout, maybe your CNS is cooked and you just don't like/want to worry about grips (coupled with the balance aspect of unilateral leg exercise, (also, 16 to 20 steps = only 8 to 10 reps).

Diameter of the bar changes things a lot. The lat pulldown bars at my gym are quite wide, maybe 40mm with the foam padding that's "sleeved" on there.... (on padding isn't glued either, it slowly creeps around/rotates .... and will creep/slide laterally during a set).

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

I can't even hold on to my working weights on RDLs with the double overhand grip so that solved the problem.

[CaptainAwesome]

The short version of the reply above is that excessive bicep hypertrophy just gets in the way in Strongman, and for whatever reason it is the guys DOING the biceps work that seem to be the ones tearing them (Evan Singleton for example).
Personal theory, too much biceps work leads to using them when you shouldn't be. I don't believe that working a muscle leads to making it more likely to be injured, but letting the wrong muscle for the job be dominant is a problem and the biceps are the wrong man for the job most of the time in Strongman.

So kind of similar reasons to why a lot of powerlifters and weightlifters don't bother with them. Though I think some powerlifters like to strengthen them specifically to protect the mixed grip deadlift (which if I'm not mistaken isn't a thing in Strongman anyway). And you could very well be right, overdoing that might actually set you up for the tears rather than protect against them.

[DanCR]

Though I think some powerlifters like to strengthen them specifically to protect the mixed grip deadlift

Wendler has opined that barbell curls are very useful for the bench press. I’m testing that now; made them a main movement recently to see what might happen if I drive them up, rather than relegating them to end-of-session bro work. Also I just think it would be cool to have an impressive curl. (Currently I do not.)

[Hardartery]

The short version of the reply above is that excessive bicep hypertrophy just gets in the way in Strongman, and for whatever reason it is the guys DOING the biceps work that seem to be the ones tearing them (Evan Singleton for example).
Personal theory, too much biceps work leads to using them when you shouldn't be. I don't believe that working a muscle leads to making it more likely to be injured, but letting the wrong muscle for the job be dominant is a problem and the biceps are the wrong man for the job most of the time in Strongman.

So kind of similar reasons to why a lot of powerlifters and weightlifters don't bother with them. Though I think some powerlifters like to strengthen them specifically to protect the mixed grip deadlift (which if I'm not mistaken isn't a thing in Strongman anyway). And you could very well be right, overdoing that might actually set you up for the tears rather than protect against them.

It might be totally incorrect, I am open to that possibility. I certainly am not married to the idea, it's just a certain vein of thinking from that era. It could be as wrong as the idea that doing cardio will destroy your gains. I know that everything is fine under normal lifting, but that one time it hits the limiter you find out a lot. Like the grip slipping on a heavy DL, most guys are going to naturally curl the shoulders forward/inward and try to curl that slipping hand back under the bar, and bam they ding a bicep or a maybe even a delt. It comes down to form breakdown at that limit, and how much control you have over it. It is obviously safer to keep form and lose the bar than to do those other things, but the other things aren't usually conscious decisions they are automatic compensations you may not even realize are happening. So, maybe if I train the bi's I have more control and that doesn't happen and maybe it makes my autopilot way more likely to do the wrong thing and hurt me.

[CaptainAwesome]

Wendler has opined that barbell curls are very useful for the bench press. I’m testing that now; made them a main movement recently to see what might happen if I drive them up, rather than relegating them to end-of-session bro work. Also I just think it would be cool to have an impressive curl. (Currently I do not.)

I actually found they help more on the overhead press, with keeping shit stable. They probably have a similar effect on the bench and honestly, there is a small role in shoulder flexion that the biceps play, same as how triceps do a little in shoulder extension. I know I've noticed doing some kind of hard biceps work right before benching or pressing will decrease performance a bit, and vice versa. I mostly just like to have some biceps work in there since they don't otherwise get a lot of direct work with anything else I do, they are a muscle of some significance and I want my muscles strong.

It might be totally incorrect, I am open to that possibility. I certainly am not married to the idea, it's just a certain vein of thinking from that era. It could be as wrong as the idea that doing cardio will destroy your gains. I know that everything is fine under normal lifting, but that one time it hits the limiter you find out a lot. Like the grip slipping on a heavy DL, most guys are going to naturally curl the shoulders forward/inward and try to curl that slipping hand back under the bar, and bam they ding a bicep or a maybe even a delt. It comes down to form breakdown at that limit, and how much control you have over it. It is obviously safer to keep form and lose the bar than to do those other things, but the other things aren't usually conscious decisions they are automatic compensations you may not even realize are happening. So, maybe if I train the bi's I have more control and that doesn't happen and maybe it makes my autopilot way more likely to do the wrong thing and hurt me.

Could also be like the cardio interference thing in that it matters how deep you go into it. Trying to go really hard into endurance training does seem to affect strength training outcomes. Could be trying to load up too much bicep training on top of everything else might cause issues, but slipping them in a little bit won't. I have also heard stories of certain guys who did actually run into the "my biceps are too large to do X" problem in their sports, so you might be right on that front too.

[mbasic]

Wendler has opined that barbell curls are very useful for the bench press.

My "bench" and incline pressing has always (on and off really...from time to time) kinda bothers my right bicep .... weirdly.

The one head/tendon crosses the shoulder ... soooo ????

[DanCR]

Now that I think about it, and if memory serves, Hepburn treated barbell curls as a main lift, for what that’s worth.

[CaptainAwesome]

Now that I think about it, and if memory serves, Hepburn treated barbell curls as a main lift, for what that’s worth.

I've been straight up 5x5ing them lately for the hell of it, but it's way too early for me to give a verdict.