Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

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CaptainAwesome
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#141

Post by CaptainAwesome » Mon May 15, 2023 9:12 am

mbasic wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 4:53 am This is a pretty good summation of the situation. ^

Funny that most of the "personal training" in all the various globo-gyms I've seen going on over the last 15 years is exercise-based stuff....funny in that you are PAYING for a PROFESSIONAL trainer to get you results. I hit the gym around the same time every day. I see the trainers with the same John Doe client every day on those same days (e.g. M, W, F). They never repeat a single exercise that I notice. I can't help but to eavesdrop or take notice: No weights, loads, reps, etc are ever recorded. The trainer seems to load the apparatus by eye (or, miraculously, has the clients' entire load-list for the workout memorized), and just seems to wing the program.

You'd think The Trainer would be somewhat aware of how keeping track of load + reps + sets (ON AT LEAST ONE OR TWO FUCKEN MOVEMENTS!!!) shows some kind of progress being made, and this could be a tool to show the client what they are doing is working .... and thus keep the client forking over the cash to said Trainer....long term.
This is why I really think the globos are monetizing their training the same way they monetize their gyms...they WANT people to wash out. People often pay for these personal training packages up-front for a bunch of sessions, and if the person stops showing up before getting in all the sessions they've paid for, the gym makes more money because it doesn't pay the trainer for the no-show sessions. Many of them probably sign on for repeating package payments, and just forget about it and end up paying for more before finally going through the hoops to terminate...much the same as what happens to people's gym memberships overall, but in this case the gym pulls in a lot more money.

Also, being able to keep a client doing the same exercises consistently has got to be a nightmare during certain times of day. Even when I take my mom in to train her during low-traffic hours, we end up having to wait for equipment. I'd imagine having to go overtime on a session with a paying client is really fucking bad.
mbasic wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 7:01 am its a weird disconnect or whatever:
SHOCKING CONFESSION: In both pictures I’m on hormone replacement (TRT). But in the before picture, my diet was crap and training program was hit and miss at best.

Also in the “before” picture I was in the process of building my businesses and made the stupid mistake that most men do when building their business… I neglected my health, fitness and was a poor example of leadership.

In both pictures I looked good in a T-shirt. But in the picture on right I look damn good without anything on.

Like I said, in both pictures I’m on TRT. Been on TRT for a few years now. Interestingly I use less of it now because I train smarter and eat better.

My nutrition is simple…
Its like he trying to discount the entire global fact he's always been on TRT, and the before-after-disparity somehow this validates his current efforts and he should be praised for them? I don't get it.

Anyone can completely derail/self-sabotage their TRT with poor diet and exercise habits.

For all we know, he's probably sitting at 1500 ttl test levels currently.
IOW: TRT++ .... aka "Sports TRT".
Yeah, even his "before" pic has him in much better shape than most guys his age who do no real exercise or disciplined dieting. I'm sure the "replacement" testosterone has nothing to do with that.

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TimK
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#142

Post by TimK » Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 am

What a fucking assclown. So sick of “before and after” photos taken with:

even lighting vs high contrast downlighting

slumped shoulders and depression face vs full on bodybuilding pose and smiling (or growling)

Taken 30 minutes after Thanksgiving dinner vs taken 30 seconds after third bis/tris/delts superset

unedited vs “structure” slider cranked to 11

close up , lower angle perspective with wide angle lens looking like a flabby pencilneck vs farther back with telephoto lens from a higher angle looking like a yoked beast with v-taper

shirtless vs tank top that reveals nothing other than pumped up arms


What did I miss?

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DCR
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#143

Post by DCR » Mon May 15, 2023 10:15 am

TimK wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 am shirtless vs tank top that reveals nothing other than pumped up arms
Ha, that struck me as well. Elsewhere in the post he mentions that those shorts are great for “leg day,” but it sure didn’t look to me like many leg days had occurred.

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mbasic
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#144

Post by mbasic » Mon May 15, 2023 11:59 am

TimK wrote: Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 am What a fucking assclown. So sick of “before and after” photos taken with:

even lighting vs high contrast downlighting

slumped shoulders and depression face vs full on bodybuilding pose and smiling (or growling)

Taken 30 minutes after Thanksgiving dinner vs taken 30 seconds after third bis/tris/delts superset

unedited vs “structure” slider cranked to 11

close up , lower angle perspective with wide angle lens looking like a flabby pencilneck vs farther back with telephoto lens from a higher angle looking like a yoked beast with v-taper

shirtless vs tank top that reveals nothing other than pumped up arms


What did I miss?
You missed:

- he was probably shooting 250mg test.cynp. / week in the after. That will really fuck with "optics".

- tan.

- shaved body hair.

- shinny baby oil / in this case maybe sweat/water/etc

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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#145

Post by KyleSchuant » Mon May 15, 2023 7:49 pm

The trainer thing - a lot of it is limitations of the medium, so to speak. The model is 1:1 training. This means that 1 customer has to pay for the trainer's time. However, clients tend not to be available Mon-Fri 9-5, most have jobs to go to then, and families and social activities Sat-Sun. So the possible training times are Mon-Fri 6-8am and 6-8pm, that's about 80% of it. The other 20% are uni students and retirees, but they tend not to have much money. Some of the stay-at-home mothers have money, but they usually prefer group classes as it's social. So most of the trainer's money comes from 4-5 hours a day split between 6-8am and 6-8pm, with maybe another hour in between. Monday to Friday, that's 20-25 hours a week.

Now take the income you'd like and divide it by 20-25, and there's your hourly rate as a trainer. Add a bit because almost nobody is booked solid that whole time. Now you get why it's $80-$120 an hour. (I see a lot of people saying that wouldn't be enough for them to live on as a trainer - interestingly, these are the same people who say they wouldn't pay a trainer that hourly rate, let alone more.)

But then think of the client. If they're doing something like Starting Strength and really pushing themselves, they need 3x1hr sessions a week. How many people will spend $240-360pw on training? More commonly they're willing to pay $80-$120pw - you guys wouldn't pay even that, but some people will. And now we're into 2x30' sessions a week.

What can we do in 2x30' sessions a week? Well, take a previously sedentary person and have them do anything hard for a while, and so long as you don't injure them they'll get better - for about 6 weeks. Past that's another question. But past those first 6 weeks it'll take them another 4-6 weeks to realise they've not progressed any further. And if they question it they trainer can say, honestly: "Remember the daily walks, eating 3 cups of vegies and drinking less booze I mentioned at the start? How are you going with those?" Plus by now 3 months have gone by and the trainer, if they have any personality at all, will have developed a bit of a friendly relationship with the client.

So this is why when I worked at a globogym I ditched the 1:1 and put people in small groups. Management didn't like it, though. They thought this was something new and different, not realising that's how black iron gyms have worked for a long, long time - lots of training partners with someone who teaches them what to do and after that floats around supervising them loosely.

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CheekiBreekiFitness
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#146

Post by CheekiBreekiFitness » Wed May 17, 2023 1:40 am

The only thing that bothers me is this whole trend of men who are 35 taking TRT.

I mean at 35 you should not need any hormonal treatment, this is ridiculous.

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DCR
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#147

Post by DCR » Wed May 17, 2023 2:39 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:40 am The only thing that bothers me is this whole trend of men who are 35 taking TRT.

I mean at 35 you should not need any hormonal treatment, this is ridiculous.
Yes. I suspect that most of them would likely benefit from just going the fuck to sleep, among other things.

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mbasic
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#148

Post by mbasic » Wed May 17, 2023 5:16 am

CheekiBreekiFitness wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 1:40 am The only thing that bothers me is this whole trend of men who are 35 taking TRT.

I mean at 35 you should not need any hormonal treatment, this is ridiculous.
What about 20-25 year olds on TRT? (this really deserves its own thread)
I have been utterly fascinated with the whole TRT trend thing going on lately ....
Reddit r/TRT is a hoot.

How its over Rx'd, and generally how the treatments are executed poorly too ....
(e.g. a guy getting a huge a shot of test once every three weeks or something).

Its a perfect storm of:
1- Horrible obesity epidemic
2- Horrible evolution of our lifestyles (no phys.activity, sun, diet, etc)
3- Not "big-phrama" perse, but the typical commercial/capitalistic motives by industry.
4- And I believe in the whole chemical endocrine disruptor theories. **
5- Cell phone/internet overuse of modern-day-super-porn (causing ED, etc)
6- Societal breakdown of how relationships and sex works.
7- General poor mental health of society as a whole.

A big part of TRT advertising .... and even your own doctor will say .... your dick ain't working right because of your low T.
They might be a little right, but 1,2,5,6,7 has a lot to do with that too.
That's a big motivator for TRT.

1,2,5,6,7 can be fixed by the individual. Might take many months/year(s) though ....

I believe partly 1,2,4 after a certain point .... having done their damage ....may not be fully reversible.
Maybe 10-20% of 35 y.o's fall into that category. Thus legit needing TRT.

I also believe these things may totally fuck-over pubescent kids to the point where they won't catchup later even if these things are corrected.

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DCR
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#149

Post by DCR » Sat May 20, 2023 10:12 am

Cellist wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 11:57 am He doesn't seem to be at all concerned with the SS folks though, but I think they could use the traffic: https://www.andybaker.com/why-some-peop ... -training/
Another comment on Andy’s article, after some thought: I think there’s a point before which it’s applicable, and that point I’m sure differs for each individual based on myriad factors. For example, let’s say that you can handle 45 lb DBs for sets of 8-12 on incline DB curls, repping in the fashion that Andy describes. I think that we all can agree that, provided that you’re eating and sleeping, that’ll grow some real muscle, and more of it than just jacking the DBs up haphazardly.

Buuuuut. You gotta be able to handle the 45s first, and turning every rep with the 15s into a war against gravity, the Nazis, and the bully who stole your kindergarten lunch money isn’t gonna get you there, nor is it going to build any muscle in and of itself unless you began lifting last week.

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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#150

Post by Cellist » Tue May 23, 2023 9:35 am

Mike's Hypertrophy app came out today for $25/mo. Is it any good?

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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#151

Post by janoycresva » Tue May 23, 2023 10:45 am

Cellist wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:35 am Mike's Hypertrophy app came out today for $25/mo. Is it any good?
Where? I’m on the beta testing list and I didn’t get an email.

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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#152

Post by xuerebx » Tue May 23, 2023 8:12 pm

Check your junk email, mine went there. Also it's not a mobile app, it's a website which requires an internet connection to use. Since I workout in a basement garage and I get no reception I can't ever use it. Plus the incremental cost of another subscription is a bit too steep for me so I'll have to pass.

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quikky
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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#153

Post by quikky » Wed May 24, 2023 11:58 am

DCR wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 10:12 am
Cellist wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 11:57 am He doesn't seem to be at all concerned with the SS folks though, but I think they could use the traffic: https://www.andybaker.com/why-some-peop ... -training/
Another comment on Andy’s article, after some thought: I think there’s a point before which it’s applicable, and that point I’m sure differs for each individual based on myriad factors. For example, let’s say that you can handle 45 lb DBs for sets of 8-12 on incline DB curls, repping in the fashion that Andy describes. I think that we all can agree that, provided that you’re eating and sleeping, that’ll grow some real muscle, and more of it than just jacking the DBs up haphazardly.

Buuuuut. You gotta be able to handle the 45s first, and turning every rep with the 15s into a war against gravity, the Nazis, and the bully who stole your kindergarten lunch money isn’t gonna get you there, nor is it going to build any muscle in and of itself unless you began lifting last week.
I am probably saying the same thing you are but in different words but I think it's less about the absolute weight of the 45s vs 15s and more about the ability to really go to failure. Whether due to a lack of neuro efficiency, or inexperience pushing hard, someone fairly new might not be well suited for low volume failure training because, well, they can't really get to failure, and doing low volume might not work at all for them, beyond the very early period. Doing 2 sets @6-7 on curls is unlikely to grow Olympia arms.

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Re: Lyle Mcdonald VS Mike Israetel Debate

#154

Post by janoycresva » Thu May 25, 2023 8:59 am

xuerebx wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 8:12 pm Check your junk email, mine went there. Also it's not a mobile app, it's a website which requires an internet connection to use. Since I workout in a basement garage and I get no reception I can't ever use it. Plus the incremental cost of another subscription is a bit too steep for me so I'll have to pass.
shit, that’s really disappointing to hear, i was prepared to shell out like 10/mo for an actual app but 25/mo for a website is a miss for me, and i love RP shit

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