Transpeople in athletics

[dw]

After a year or so of not posting...where are the MTF SportsPeople who are winning...and are allowed to win... at the highest level?

There's a constant stream of reports about them if you follow the news. Not sure I understand the implication of your question.

[5hout]

After a year or so of not posting...where are the MTF SportsPeople who are winning...and are allowed to win... at the highest level?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/202 ... tour-gila/

https://nypost.com/2023/04/25/trans-run ... -marathon/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/sport/li ... index.html

https://nypost.com/2023/04/08/trans-gol ... ournament/

https://beachgrit.com/2023/05/pro-surfi ... -over-the/

https://xtramagazine.com/culture/queer- ... ics-249005

Personally, I don't link them when I see them unless particularly interesting b/c the issue isn't that interesting to me. I think there are pretty clear sides on this and no one is changing their mind.

[mbasic]

After a year or so of not posting...where are the MTF SportsPeople who are winning...and are allowed to win... at the highest level?

There's a constant stream of reports about them if you follow the news. Not sure I understand the implication of your question.

He'll defer to his "[absolute] highest level" qualifier. Its the only way in his own mental masturbation of the subject is making it "ok".

I personally think its horrible "these people" do this to women's sports, but I can see sort of a filter, or mechanism where it would be highly unlikely for it to happen at a World Championships or Olympic level.

{quick aside, Hubbard got to Worlds, thus leap frogging many female athletes in same region).

Say like 100m sprint:
Elite cis-women on the world stage post sub 11 at times .... (a handful 11.00 to 10.70 something typically).

For a cis-guy to go thru the joke that is the accepted transition procedural bullshit to qualify as a mtf-woman, that PERSON would have to have previously something run like really low 10's (10.4-10.1) to be able to hang to enough of his male athleticism to run high tens to be competitive with elite cis-women as a mtf-person-thing.

A guy who's that capable and successful in say high school and then on to college isn't going to do that, just to (try to) beat the best cis-woman in the world. That guy has had quite a bit of personal success at the level one magnitude down from the world stage and is likely very content with that.

...AND/OR....

being that the very-high performance end of the bell curves for both cis-sexes are squeezed A LOT closer together (but yea: they're still are obvs differences in the capabilities of the two sexes)....it might be just a bit much too derailing to succeed appreciably ( ...ENOUGH SO ) at the most elite-women-level to be worth going thru all that. That mtf-mf'er would be in the mix for sure, but not best-of-the-elite. (kinda like hubbard)
That said: my hypothetical mtf-sprinter would absolutely 100% destroy all cis-women at that one-level-down-from-elite level of cis-females (i.e. college cis-women sprinters). And the last sentence here is an illustration why none of this bullshit is fair to women.

==================

EDIT:

Now that I'm immersed in High School Track and Field this "shit" [*waves arms around*] is even more infuriating. Seeing all the bullshit cis-women have to put up with, and them giving their all and working all year/lifetime for something .... and then the obvs performance differences between men and women boy and girls you deal with every day .... and also small children (club meets, 6-10 year olds).....
...just fuck man.

"...iTs a SoCiAl ConSTrUcT !!1!1"

[Philbert]

After a year or so of not posting...where are the MTF SportsPeople who are winning...and are allowed to win... at the highest level?

There's a constant stream of reports about them if you follow the news. Not sure I understand the implication of your question.

He'll defer to his "[absolute] highest level" qualifier. Its the only way in his own mental masturbation of the subject is making it "ok".

Sometimes known as the motte and bailey fallacy. To summarize the position: mtf transgender individuals should be allowed to participate in female sports for all the benefits elementary, high school college, and community sports have, which as people they ought not to be deprived of. This is not a threat to the participation of females in female sports because mtf transgender individuals have not swept the women's events in the Olympics. Fallacious for the reasons mbasic articulated, among others.

[dw]

Maybe someone mentioned this before but it occurs to me that people taking the evasive "I don't care I don't think sports are important" line are setting a trap for themselves, because if you don't think sports are important why is it necessary for a tiny minority of participants to spoil the fun for everyone else?

The less sports are important the less we are talking about some kind of fundamental right to compete and the more we are talking about pure socially irresponsible selfishness.

I however think sports are important and I concede it would be very frustrating for a serious MTF athlete to have to abandon formal competition for the sake of fairness. But of course then you consider the similar situation of all of her natural F competitors...

[ChasingCurls69]

After a year or so of not posting...where are the MTF SportsPeople who are winning...and are allowed to win... at the highest level?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/202 ... tour-gila/

https://nypost.com/2023/04/25/trans-run ... -marathon/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/17/sport/li ... index.html

https://nypost.com/2023/04/08/trans-gol ... ournament/

https://beachgrit.com/2023/05/pro-surfi ... -over-the/

https://xtramagazine.com/culture/queer- ... ics-249005

Personally, I don't link them when I see them unless particularly interesting b/c the issue isn't that interesting to me. I think there are pretty clear sides on this and no one is changing their mind.

The NY Post marathon one is blatant propoganda. Beat 14k women and still came in like 8000th place. Sucks to suck for those 14k.

[5hout]

The NY Post marathon one is blatant propoganda. Beat 14k women and still came in like 8000th place. Sucks to suck for those 14k.

The article is shit, but the end story (person cheated by not complying with rules for trans people in that category and finished ~6k out of 20k vs ~15k/28k. Top 30% vs top 50%) is real enough for me.

[mbasic]

[mbasic]

IWF thinking about an open class for trans-people

https://iwf.sport/wp-content/uploads/do ... _FINAL.pdf

IMO, this will be the end of weightlifting.
The drug use thing since 2015, Ajan corruption, the IOC constantly threatening to boot WL out of the Olympics, the reduction of Olympic Games weight classes, the constant rearraging of weight classes .... and now this.

How's 3 gender classes going to work for future Olympics?
The IOC seems heel bent on reducing medals and participation everywhere....all sports.

You'll have like only 3 or 4 weight classes now, for 3 genders.

Its so fucking ironic .... Women's weightlifting in the USA was just taking off the last 3-5 years.... and now they get fucked (reduction is womens slots)

[BostonRugger]

https://reduxx.info/male-powerlifter-se ... mpionship/

I regret to inform that the men who insist on being called women are at it again

[mouse]

https://reduxx.info/male-powerlifter-se ... mpionship/

I regret to inform that the men who insist on being called women are at it again

Everyone was happy that I was there. And it really struck me that maybe my participation isn’t necessarily fair – I mean, there’s science, whatever – but people welcome me because I’m actually nice to people,

"I'm screwing you out of your deserved win, but hey, at least I'm polite about it..."

Also...

I mean, there’s science, whatever –

I lol'd

Who wants to make a bet that this was not the tune this person sang a few years ago during a certain worldwide event?

[DoctorWho]

Remember me?

The MN case against USAPL was an easy case (legally). MN statute includes gender identity under the discrimination law. The case was summary judgment -- meaning that the case was decided just on the facts that the parties agreed on.

So women or even trans athletes are (probably) not permitted to form their own organization with the policies they want (I mean that exclude in the way we are talking).

Do I remember right that Smuts passed away?

[mbasic]

Do I remember right that Smuts passed away?

yes

[asdf]

The International Chess Federation, known as FIDE, will effectively stop allowing transgender women from participating in women's competitions until "further analysis" can be made — which could take up to two years.

The organization will also remove some titles won by players who won in women's categories and later transitioned to male. It will also remove some titles won by transgender men. The new policies are slated to go into effect on Monday.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/18/11945935 ... e-pushback

[aurelius]

Why are there separate men and women’s divisions in chess?

[Philbert]

Why are there separate men and women’s divisions in chess?

Because men are empirically better chess players. Whether this is due to better spatial processing, differences in aggressiveness, differences in interest, or differences in cultural expectations has not been definitively demonstrated. As it stands, a women's division is the only way to have more than one female player ranked in the top 10

[5hout]

Why are there separate men and women’s divisions in chess?

Because men are empirically better chess players. Whether this is due to better spatial processing, differences in aggressiveness, differences in interest, or differences in cultural expectations has not been definitively demonstrated. As it stands, a women's division is the only way to have more than one female player ranked in the top 10

There would not be a single female player in the top 100 at the current time. I think the top women would be somewhere around 150. This isn't to say at different times that wouldn't be true, just that right now none are up that high. If you limit it to more recently played I think a few would be into top 80.

[mbasic]

Why are there separate men and women’s divisions in chess?

aw man .... that hurts.

f'ing amazing this hasn't come up before in main stream media

[aurelius]

Because men are empirically better chess players. Whether this is due to better spatial processing, differences in aggressiveness, differences in interest, or differences in cultural expectations has not been definitively demonstrated. As it stands, a women's division is the only way to have more than one female player ranked in the top 10

More accurately: chess has Open and Women's rankings.

Is there data supporting men have natural advantages that would make them better at chess? Or is it a population issue? Societal and cultural factors result in the majority of players being male. Is this just the result of not a large enough population of females compete in chess?

Bringing back to the topic of this thread. If there is not data to support males have superior brains, why should transgender MtF be banned from the women's division?


Looked it up. Judit Polgar was the greatest woman player achieved the rank of 10th overall (men and women). She did not compete in women's only events and never held a woman's title.

[asdf]

Judit Polgar was the greatest woman player

She and her two sisters were raised by her father to be chess champions. He wanted to prove that women are as intellectually capable as men.