Andy Baker - Baker Barbell 5x5

[Robster]

Anyone run this program with good results? Ive ran 4 8-week cycles of HST (hypertrophy specific training) and gained a little size and was able to make some slight increases in my deadlift, ohp, and squat, i gained only 5 lbs on my bench. So i figured i would switch it up and do some 5x5 variation and try to get my lifts up more. Just curious how well this program has worked for any of u guys? Im on week 3 atm. Enjoyable so far but the volume/frequency is lower than im used to and i cant help but think “im not losing gains am i ?”

[SSJBartSimpson]

I haven't but have considered running his arm building template. How similar is his 5x5 template to TM? I've heard his standard programming is mostly emblematic of 531?

[mgil]

Depending on your training history, straight 5x5 is probably not the best thing. Andy’s later stuff uses a DUP method mixed with TM to get gains. It’s pretty decent if you’re on the right place of the curve.

[Robster]

Depending on your training history, straight 5x5 is probably not the best thing. Andy’s later stuff uses a DUP method mixed with TM to get gains. It’s pretty decent if you’re on the right place of the curve.

This one is similar to TM

[mgil]

If you’re concerned about volume, you can maybe sneak in accessory work after the main lifts.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

@Robster This might not directly address your question but I feel (from experience) that asking yourself "am I leaving gains on the table" or "am I progressing fast enough" is one of the most destructive things you can do for your training.

Are you currently progressing and enjoying training ? If you are currently progressing, even at a very slow rate (a few percents per month), and you enjoy the training then your program is fine and you are not "leaving gains on the table".

[CaptainAwesome]

I ran something with the same overall 4 day texas method type scheme, with the volume/intensity split across the week. I did NOT do 5x5 volume deadlifts. Maybe there's someone out there who can handle 5x5 volume deadlifts along with everything else, but that is not me. Even the 5x5 squats at 70% is not something I can really do and keep coming back for more every week. I also did much less assistance work, and did not use the wave loading scheme for the intensity day. The wave scheme probably helps give the thing sustainability. Overall what the program seems to do is take the texas method approach from setting a PR every week to setting a planned PR at the end of a series of weeks. A good move for people who are out of that weekly PR phase, which honestly seems like it's even shorter than the novice phase. An "advanced intermediate" type program. Just be mindful if you are the kind of person who can handle lots of heavy deadlift and squat volume, especially packed in the same week together.

[mgil]

I ran something with the same overall 4 day texas method type scheme, with the volume/intensity split across the week. I did NOT do 5x5 volume deadlifts. Maybe there's someone out there who can handle 5x5 volume deadlifts along with everything else, but that is not me. Even the 5x5 squats at 70% is not something I can really do and keep coming back for more every week. I also did much less assistance work, and did not use the wave loading scheme for the intensity day. The wave scheme probably helps give the thing sustainability. Overall what the program seems to do is take the texas method approach from setting a PR every week to setting a planned PR at the end of a series of weeks. A good move for people who are out of that weekly PR phase, which honestly seems like it's even shorter than the novice phase. An "advanced intermediate" type program. Just be mindful if you are the kind of person who can handle lots of heavy deadlift and squat volume, especially packed in the same week together.

This is why percentages are tricky. Andy even writes about this. 70% for a 700lbs DL versus 70% for a 500lbs DL is gonna be way different in terms of stimulus.

Nonetheless, I think people shy away from doing volume on DL for the wrong reasons and/or it’s because of their squat programming dominating recovery resources.

For instance, if 5x5@70% is too much, I bet 8x3x70% is feasible or 5x5@60-60%. The knobs can be turned to get reps in.

A lot of SS peeps also do primarily LBBS as their squat. If the volume stuff is done as front squats, wherein the quads are getting pushed more than the hammies, then DL work won’t hurt so much. Note that Andy has written about using FS as a volume alternate in the past as well.

Like most basic templates, things usually need to be tweaked to the individual based on training history.

[CaptainAwesome]

This is why percentages are tricky. Andy even writes about this. 70% for a 700lbs DL versus 70% for a 500lbs DL is gonna be way different in terms of stimulus.

Nonetheless, I think people shy away from doing volume on DL for the wrong reasons and/or it’s because of their squat programming dominating recovery resources.

For instance, if 5x5@70% is too much, I bet 8x3x70% is feasible or 5x5@60-60%. The knobs can be turned to get reps in.

A lot of SS peeps also do primarily LBBS as their squat. If the volume stuff is done as front squats, wherein the quads are getting pushed more than the hammies, then DL work won’t hurt so much. Note that Andy has written about using FS as a volume alternate in the past as well.

Like most basic templates, things usually need to be tweaked to the individual based on training history.

I will say, the only time I've ever really been able to do an additional volume deadlifting workout in my week was when I was working on much lighter box squats because I was having some knee pain problems. Still not 5x5 though, just 3x5. And once I got back to regular squatting that had to get axed. Rippetoe has said he didn't think the squat could really fry the back but I think it can. That period of box squatting had some of my most powerful feeling deadlift sets ever.

[mgil]

Most of Rip’s hypotheses are wrong.

[AlanMackey]

Most of Ripotheses are wrong.

FTFY.

[Robster]

6 weeks into the routine. Kinda feel like im gaining strength but losing muscle. like the lack of volume and hypertrophy work is destroying my gains.

[DCR]

6 weeks into the routine. Kinda feel like im gaining strength but losing muscle. like the lack of volume and hypertrophy work is destroying my gains.

Cease and desist immediately!

I’m kidding. Sort of.

Ok not really.

[StephenIRL]

Did you have a look at Wendlers Five & Dime. 3 days a week full body as well. Could be better if you feel the baker 5x5 is lacking volume.

[CaptainAwesome]

6 weeks into the routine. Kinda feel like im gaining strength but losing muscle. like the lack of volume and hypertrophy work is destroying my gains.

If you were doing a lot of that stuff prior, yeah, it likely is leading to some shrinkage. There's that transient "sarcoplasmic hypertrophy" that comes and goes based on that kinda stuff. I don't think it continues to accumulate in shrinkage though, and it'll come right back once you start up again. The actual "myofibrillar hypertrophy" and strength tend to stick around though. So you're not doing direct bicep work and they've shrunk a bit, but whenever you jump back into direct bicep work it'll probably all be there still. At least that's what I've found with that kinda stuff. The isolation/"bodybuilding" work tends to actually retain its level of progress after periods away from it a lot better than the big compounds do.

Did you have a look at Wendlers Five & Dime. 3 days a week full body as well. Could be better if you feel the baker 5x5 is lacking volume.

Baker's 5x5 is a 4-day upper-lower.

[StephenIRL]

Baker's 5x5 is a 4-day upper-lower.
[/quote]

Baker 5x5 is an upper-lower format that is designed to be run 3 days a week. To be honest he probably has a few different 5x5 variations out there both 3 and 4 days.