Alternating heavy squats and deadlifts every other week

[Hardartery]

Isn't alternating between heavy squat and deadlifts every other week the standard programming for Westside lifters ?

If we judge programming by results rather than theoretical discussions, this definitely "works".

In this forum there are several people like @Hamburgerfan who trains like that, maybe check out his training log if you haven't already. Also he made this thread that might interest you, discussing programming he used to get to a 600 lbs deadlift viewtopic.php?t=1108

No, that's not Westside programming. At all. The standard is a max lift in some sort of Squat variation followed by accessory work and then a separate speed day which involves a very low load cranked at maximum velocity to elicit neural recruitment. Deadlifts were actually unusual at all in normal training, and so is normal straight bar squatting in training. A very different concept than waves.

Not sure if you're referring to "alternating between heavy squat and deadlifts every other week" or my training in particular, but I'd like to clarify that while westside/conjugate influenced stuff was the largest part of my training, I never had any special insight on what they did at the Westside gym and I don't believe that my training was identical to theirs. From what I understand, I did deadlift variations (usually modified ROM) a lot more frequently, and I never quite got the hang of max effort good mornings.

Can't find my headset, I know he talks about it at length (and on a podcast, his best format) in some of the long form podcasts but I can't find the right sections atm.

https://www.westside-barbell.com/blogs/ ... t-deadlift

https://www.westside-barbell.com/blogs/ ... ift-strong

If you're interested read the articles, but I've always felt (based on the articles/podcasts and no real world experience with Westside lifters) that the "we don't deadlift meme" was more of a hook to draw people in. The actual programming is like "we don't deadlift, we just work every one of the muscles 2 or 3 different ways and pull from around the floor a lot, but don't do the competition lift very often". Hey it's better advertising than GOMAD.

That's the main idea behind Westside, from what the guys that lifted there and the Louie seminars that I've listened to say. You work the muscles, but not with the specific lift, you find different angles and ways to test those muscles and work them and then rely on speed work to drill technique and pull it all together.

[CaptainAwesome]

If you're interested read the articles, but I've always felt (based on the articles/podcasts and no real world experience with Westside lifters) that the "we don't deadlift meme" was more of a hook to draw people in. The actual programming is like "we don't deadlift, we just work every one of the muscles 2 or 3 different ways and pull from around the floor a lot, but don't do the competition lift very often". Hey it's better advertising than GOMAD.

I dunno, I feel like "we don't squat" would be more effective for me. Deadlifts are hard as fuck but I don't hate them like I hate squats.

[5hout]

If you're interested read the articles, but I've always felt (based on the articles/podcasts and no real world experience with Westside lifters) that the "we don't deadlift meme" was more of a hook to draw people in. The actual programming is like "we don't deadlift, we just work every one of the muscles 2 or 3 different ways and pull from around the floor a lot, but don't do the competition lift very often". Hey it's better advertising than GOMAD.

I dunno, I feel like "we don't squat" would be more effective for me. Deadlifts are hard as fuck but I don't hate them like I hate squats.

1: Squats are life.
2: Apart from Louie's love of squatting you could have wrote the same article, because they also didn't/don't competition squat very often. Box squats/good mornings/other bars are the rule.

[Clearwater47]

Westside - Winning at Powerlifting without Squatting, Benching, or Deadlifting

I feel like that should've been the title of a book or article, lol.

[CheekiBreekiFitness]

If you're interested read the articles, but I've always felt (based on the articles/podcasts and no real world experience with Westside lifters) that the "we don't deadlift meme" was more of a hook to draw people in. The actual programming is like "we don't deadlift, we just work every one of the muscles 2 or 3 different ways and pull from around the floor a lot, but don't do the competition lift very often". Hey it's better advertising than GOMAD.

I dunno, I feel like "we don't squat" would be more effective for me. Deadlifts are hard as fuck but I don't hate them like I hate squats.

I find deadlifting can be fun but squatting is atrocious.

[CaptainAwesome]

1: Squats are life.

For me, squats most assuredly are death.

Anyway, maybe in the future I'll try arranging things so one week squat is done DE and deadlift heavy, and then the next deadlift is done DE with squat being heavy.

[dw]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

[CaptainAwesome]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

You may be onto something, because my squat is assuredly the opposite of that and it feels like I am strapped into that pain machine from The Princess Bride when I grind a really heavy set to completion. I've benched 275 and squatted 380, but for some reason benching 240 feels WAY better than squatting 240. If you made me choose between squatting 275 and deadlifting 405, I would pick the deadlift every time.

[ChasingCurls69]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I think getting quaddy with a leaned over squat just makes them feel better too. I am leaning over more than I have in the last few years, but my quads are significantly stronger from leg pressing and doing slightly fucked up but more upright squats in the interim, so they feel pretty good even at high RPEs.

[janoycresva]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

for the most part, I think the better your leverages are for a movement the more natural it feels and the more enjoyable it is

that being said lately I’ve been enjoying squats more than bench, but that’s mainly due to me having a really odd imbalance/asymmetry on bench that I haven’t been able to fix (bar is super crooked regardless of weight)

[DCR]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I ran this experiment today by switching to high bar, which I very rarely do, and you, sir, are absolutely right.

@janoycresva, crooked as in one side is higher than the other, i.e. one of your arms is lagging, or crooked horizontally, as in the bar isn’t coming down straight onto your chest?

[CaptainAwesome]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I ran this experiment today by switching to high bar, which I very rarely do, and you, sir, are absolutely right.

I've been doing SSB squats lately. Granted they are not up to a weight I'd probably call maxing out at the reps I'm doing them, but they feel like a lot less of a cardio event than my low bar squats do. The safety bar seems to give me a weight distribution that lets me have a far more upright back angle, and without me having to assume a wide stance with the knees out. It does feel like more of just a leg movement than a low back movement. Low bar I end up with my back angled like a good morning, and it's like I'm doing both a heavy back movement and a heavy leg movement at the same time. It takes a ton of energy out of me.

[DCR]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I ran this experiment today by switching to high bar, which I very rarely do, and you, sir, are absolutely right.

I've been doing SSB squats lately. Granted they are not up to a weight I'd probably call maxing out at the reps I'm doing them, but they feel like a lot less of a cardio event than my low bar squats do. The safety bar seems to give me a weight distribution that lets me have a far more upright back angle, and without me having to assume a wide stance with the knees out. It does feel like more of just a leg movement than a low back movement. Low bar I end up with my back angled like a good morning, and it's like I'm doing both a heavy back movement and a heavy leg movement at the same time. It takes a ton of energy out of me.

I have no doubt. If my gym situation permitted it, I might squat no other way. As it is, I’ve only been able to use it a few times, as well as a spider bar, which is a motherfucker but still feels like a leg movement and not a hip/back movement.

[janoycresva]

@janoycresva, crooked as in one side is higher than the other, i.e. one of your arms is lagging, or crooked horizontally, as in the bar isn’t coming down straight onto your chest?

my right arm is consistently 3-4 inches below my left arm (in a vertical sense), at any weight (even empty bar), at all parts of the ROM, and I think it's contributing to some right elbow irritation

this is likely due to some hip rotation I seem to have - if I set up to the bar on deadlifts my torso is slightly rotated to the left, same on squat, same on OHP, same just standing with my feet level (my two upper abdominals visibly point to the left by like 10 degrees), not sure if I can actually do anything about it and forcing an even bar path feels like I'm about to fall off the bench

[ChasingCurls69]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I ran this experiment today by switching to high bar, which I very rarely do, and you, sir, are absolutely right.

@janoycresva, crooked as in one side is higher than the other, i.e. one of your arms is lagging, or crooked horizontally, as in the bar isn’t coming down straight onto your chest?

High bar feels absurdly grindy for me, especially compared to the actual bar speed. Part of it was being too upright for my proportions like I had just fixed on low bar, but it already cut up my back from the rolling so I aborted high bar.

[DCR]

@janoycresva, crooked as in one side is higher than the other, i.e. one of your arms is lagging, or crooked horizontally, as in the bar isn’t coming down straight onto your chest?

my right arm is consistently 3-4 inches below my left arm (in a vertical sense), at any weight (even empty bar), at all parts of the ROM, and I think it's contributing to some right elbow irritation

this is likely due to some hip rotation I seem to have - if I set up to the bar on deadlifts my torso is slightly rotated to the left, same on squat, same on OHP, same just standing with my feet level (my two upper abdominals visibly point to the left by like 10 degrees), not sure if I can actually do anything about it and forcing an even bar path feels like I'm about to fall off the bench

Damn. Yeah, if there is something that can be done given those circumstances, it’s certainly beyond my bro knowledge For the benefit of anyone else with this issue - but without the hip rotation - I was gonna suggest making sure on every rep to push through the pinkies, which went a long way toward solving the problem for me.

[DCR]

I wonder if the more upright and quaddy your squat is the more you like them, because the less it feels like an awkward grindy full-body movement.

I ran this experiment today by switching to high bar, which I very rarely do, and you, sir, are absolutely right.

@janoycresva, crooked as in one side is higher than the other, i.e. one of your arms is lagging, or crooked horizontally, as in the bar isn’t coming down straight onto your chest?

High bar feels absurdly grindy for me, especially compared to the actual bar speed. Part of it was being too upright for my proportions like I had just fixed on low bar, but it already cut up my back from the rolling so I aborted high bar.

My memory is that you’re much taller than me, so that makes sense. In addition to not being tall, there’s a nostalgia/familiarity to high bar for me, from the days before everything in the gym hurt. When I started lifting in my late teens, I was very quad biased, I think in part from running for sports but also from putting more effort into quad centric BB movements than anything for the posterior chain, and also I didn’t even know that low bar was a thing that existed.