Bible verses

[dw]

The practice of exile in polygamist communities shows the problem in reverse - polygamist societies without war will tend to have too many males, monogamist societies with war will tend to have too many females.

This is all in the context of ancient societies where productivity was much lower than it is now and there will still peoples for whom war was a major source of wealth (largely in the form of slaves).

I think there were likely many societies in ancient times that were almost perpetually at war. Some of the North American native tribes, Vikings, whomever.

I don't think either practice can be said to be inherently good or bad. I'm sure you can find societies that would have succumbed to foreign conquest if they had not allow repopulation by means of polygamy.

[aurelius]

The practice of exile in polygamist communities shows the problem in reverse - polygamist societies without war will tend to have too many males, monogamist societies with war will tend to have too many females.

This is not true. Once we get past Paleolithic tribal societies, only a small percentage of a population goes to war. Of those, the vast majority, meaning over 90%, return from war. The US has been in 'constant' war since its inception. Polygamy has not been 'needed' to repopulate. Despite monogamy and continuous warfare the US population has grown exponentially. This is true of the entire world.

There are rare times in history where a combination of war, disease, and famine have depopulated large areas. This is the exception to the rule. The most major one being the over 100 year era of the black plague, hundred years war, and great famine in Europe. Europe managed to repopulate just fine without polygamy.

It seems you are referring to Paleolithic era. To give context, the entire population of homo sapiens in Europe was about 30,000 towards the end of that period. Bearing in mind human populations were limited to the equatorial zones until the Neolithic era. After the Neolithic period began (when farming and husbandry was widely adopted), the human population exploded and complex societies formed.

If you have a historical case to present, I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, I think your argument for polygamy is too abstract to have any value.

[chrisd]

Insofar as all parties involved are 1) Human, 2) Adult, and 3) Consenting, then party on as far as I'm concerned. Certainly there are rules for consent and shit, but if everyone in the relationship/union is copacetic, who cares? Now, I can see the State's perspective with respect to it being messy from a rights perspective like property transfer and such. I imagine sticking with two consenting adults is just easy to legislate.

There is a lot of historical evidence and social/economic analysis that polygamy is terrible for societies.

Essentially apply the issue of wealthy investors buying up real estate in the US to finding a romantic partner. Most populations are close to a 50/50 split men and women. Wealthy men have multiple wives. Having multiple wives becomes a status symbol so even middle class men have a couple. There simply are not enough women to partner with over 20% of the population. From a societal perspective, it is very important to occupy and give a future to work towards for men between the age of 18-35. Starting families and the responsibilities that come with it has been the best solution so far. Otherwise, Men find other shit to do like burn the mother fucker down. It is called the 'societal stability effect of nagging'.

This issue of stability is why the world over societies have banned polygamy. The few societies that do practice it are strife ridden shitholes.

Yeah, that makes sense. When I shared my asshole opinion, I was thinking of say, 8 dudes and 8 dudettes trying to all marry one another, not 1 dude and many dudettes.

The latter is the definition of polygamy.

Polynadyry, seen in Tibet, pats of China and some rain forest tribes. One woman plural men.

Not sure about the whole group thing. Californigamy ?

[EricK]

Polygamy = "many spouses"
Polyandry = "many andrews"
Polygyny = "many 'ginas"

[aurelius]

Not sure about the whole group thing. Californigamy ?

We just call that

[chrisd]

Polygamy = "many spouses"
Polyandry = "many andrews"
Polygyny = "many 'ginas"

Probably.

[chrisd]

While we're on it. I don't recall Judges chapters 11-12 being talked about in Sunday school. Loads of stuff about how Abraham and Isaac showed how god was merciful if you obeyed him, not so much of his attitude to girls.

[Philbert]

While we're on it. I don't recall Judges chapters 11-12 being talked about in Sunday school. Loads of stuff about how Abraham and Isaac showed how god was merciful if you obeyed him, not so much of his attitude to girls.

Judges is mostly about the Israelites ignoring everything Moses told them to do and not do. Jephthah killing his daughter is one more action on the long list.

[mbasic]

Leviticus 20:15

"“If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death ... "

ok, #1 yeah, kinda unusal this type of content is covered in the Bible.

and #2, maybe seems weird to us now that by today's standards, we wouldn't kill a person for fucking an animal ...

but #3Show

"...he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal.”

like, WTF man?

#3a- like the animal had much say in the matter?
#3b - oh what, they were afraid of the half-human-animal-spawn that was going to be offsprung from the deed?

Just to your first point, the Jewish bible is the law of a people (among other things), as the Koran is the law of all who submit to it. Like the Constitution for Americans.

So there's necessarily a lot of nitty gritty detail in there, like the precise dimensions of temple construction.

To that point .... another part in the bible to where (The Law) if your brother was married and died without having had the chance yet to offspring a child (i assume a son) with his wife ... it would be YOUR duty to impregnate your dead brother's wife, so she could have a son. And then the kicker is: that son would be considered you brother's offspring "legally".

I guess Onan pulled out and that was not cool in the eye of our Lord.

Genesis 38:8–10
8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to tyour brother’s wife and uperform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. 10 And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.
------------
Explanation: According to the custom of levirate marriage that was in place at the time of Genesis 38, if a man died without having sons from his wife, it was his brothers’ duty to marry and impregnate her.

And the resulting offspring were considered the child of the deceased brother.

Unfortunately, Onan didn’t feel like fulfilling his duties, although he did feel like having sex with Tamar. He just wanted to have fun and literally waste his semen, which showed great disobedience that infuriated the Lord.

On a side note, mastrbuation is a sin and it’s called onanism for a reason (even though Onan didn’t masturbate, yet he was still wasting his semen).

[alek]

Unfortunately, Onan didn’t feel like fulfilling his duties, although he did feel like having sex with Tamar. He just wanted to have fun and literally waste his semen, which showed great disobedience that infuriated the Lord.

On a side note, mastrbuation is a sin and it’s called onanism for a reason (even though Onan didn’t masturbate, yet he was still wasting his semen).

I get to post it again!!!!!!!!



I am so easily amused... I'm going to giggle about this all day.

[EricK]

I am so easily amused... I'm going to giggle about this all day.

I thought of the premise for a childish joke that made me giggle this morning. The idea of some douche Chad talking dirty to his baby momma about his baby cannon, to which she points out that she's got the baby cannon and all he has is a pee shooter.

I swear I'm not in middle school...

[alek]

I am so easily amused... I'm going to giggle about this all day.

I thought of the premise for a childish joke that made me giggle this morning. The idea of some douche Chad talking dirty to his baby momma about his baby cannon, to which she points out that she's got the baby cannon and all he has is a pee shooter.

:snort:

I swear I'm not in middle school...

Oh. I can't judge. Glass houses and all that.