Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pmSo I was surprised to finally see someone actually program them for a movement-related purpose.
I love them. They were my primary upper body movement back when I threw javelin. Great for overhead strength. They're also great for trunk-stability/anti-hyper-extension.
Did you use weight percentages for programming?
No. Probably should have. My college S&C training was...less than ideal.
The elite guys track/test pullover 1RM. But they do a crazy ballistic version ( @Testiclaw, avert your eyes):
Honestly...I hate it, but I also haven't trained a single competitor who could do this...
Feet on bench, abs tight, trying to keep the lower back rounded a bit.
Lower as far as able, get a few deep breaths, return to starting position.
I have a half-roller I wanna try this setup with (my full-size roller is too big, and I haven't used it in years, so I'm not inclined to buy another).
Just curious: why not feet on the floor?
So feet on the bench makes it easier to keep the pelvis tucked and lower back rounded, so we can focus more of the extension in the thoracic area (rather than compensate with an arch).
Feet on bench, abs tight, trying to keep the lower back rounded a bit.
Lower as far as able, get a few deep breaths, return to starting position.
I have a half-roller I wanna try this setup with (my full-size roller is too big, and I haven't used it in years, so I'm not inclined to buy another).
Just curious: why not feet on the floor?
So feet on the bench makes it easier to keep the pelvis tucked and lower back rounded, so we can focus more of the extension in the thoracic area (rather than compensate with an arch).
A light bulb just went off in my head.
Don't let that happen, because you'll soon traverse a road where nothing is good or bad and none of your questions have answers. Then you marry a successful woman and open a gym and wonder why anyone pays you but are too terrified to ask them and every winning competitor you make doesn't bolster your confidence but instead detracts from it and you're convinced you're a fraud and soon you'll be found out.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pmThanks! Is there any intensity ceiling though?
No. Just be smart about keeping fatigue in check.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pmAnything above 80% will just be singles @ 6-8?
Eh. You're an outlier. I don't feel comfortable giving general advice to you. Post an amrap with 80% of one of your lifts and I'll have a better sense of what reps per set I'd use.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:43 pm
The 3-6 variable sets is for the whole range of %s and not just 15RM, right?
I'd probably increase # of sets as intensity increases. So, maybe 7-8 triples @ 7-8RM, 7-8 doubles @ 5RM etc. I'm pulling those set counts out of my ass....but hopefully you get the idea (more sets, lower average set RPE as intensity gets higher).
Did 105kgx1, which was probably my 1rm and managed to do 85kgx15 @ 80%. if there was a gun to my head, I think I could have done 1-2 more reps... taking the heavy singles/warmups into account.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 amDid 105kgx1, which was probably my 1rm and managed to do 85kgx15 @ 80%. if there was a gun to my head, I think I could have done 1-2 more reps... taking the heavy singles/warmups into account.
Dude, that is just bonkers (15RM with 77ish% 1RM).
My guess is that your 1RM is probably more like 108-112 range. But 15 reps with 85kg is still crazy work capacity with a very high relative intensity.
I think you can forget ever using %-based template programs...ever. They'll be totally inappropriate for you.
Just giving a second and inexpert opinion after seeing the above post... that bench single really doesn't look anywhere near a 1 RM to me. I think I would have guessed 5 RM.
thoradicus wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:51 amDid 105kgx1, which was probably my 1rm and managed to do 85kgx15 @ 80%. if there was a gun to my head, I think I could have done 1-2 more reps... taking the heavy singles/warmups into account.
Dude, that is just bonkers (15RM with 77ish% 1RM).
My guess is that your 1RM is probably more like 108-112 range. But 15 reps with 85kg is still crazy work capacity with a very high relative intensity.
I think you can forget ever using %-based template programs...ever. They'll be totally inappropriate for you.
I'll get back to you with some ideas.
Thanks Hanley, can't wait. I guess this is why I've been stalling for 5+ years. Nothing worked at all.
dw wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:38 am
Just giving a second and inexpert opinion after seeing the above post... that bench single really doesn't look anywhere near a 1 RM to me. I think I would have guessed 5 RM.
But I'm kind of bad with bench RPE.
It was quite close. Definitely not a 5RM. Could have maybe squeezed in 5 more kilos like Hanley said but not more than that...I think.
Renascent wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:50 am
@Testiclaw
What do pullovers accomplish when trying to improve thoracic extension?
I use them as a weighted stretch, and eventually add a small foam roller under the middle-back.
I don't think unweighted stretches are that useful, but a loaded movement that we can progressively load while also progressively increase range of motion and stretching can be useful when coupled with learning how to overhead squat.
Thanks!
I'd begun to consider it like a cousin to front raises, straight-arm pulldowns, and the ab wheel. My training purposes are/were different, so I never considered it as a thoracic extension stretch.
Less than a week, we've added some ROM. She typically struggles with any overhead positions in gymnastics, and we'll need to fix that for weightlifting.
Testiclaw wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:02 pm
I think the "ribcage expansion" and "Arnold pec development" qualities of pullovers variations are all bullshit, but paired with a roller under the back they can be useful for overhead positions.
I like to pair them with seated snatch grip BTN presses, focusing on leaning forward, keeping heavy feet, and really emphasizing upper back activity and internal rotation.
How do you have people perform the pullovers? The closest I've done is the SS-style lying tricep extensions with either DBs or an EZ curl bar.
Arms stay straight, locked.
Feet on bench, abs tight, trying to keep the lower back rounded a bit.
Lower as far as able, get a few deep breaths, return to starting position.
So, uh...
I just found out what happens when the load is heavy enough that you can't counterbalance the weight with your lower body.
If you're at a lowish bodyfat percentage (15-17% by the navy calculator method), and not completely untrained, is there much strength gain one can expect without also gaining weight?
I've been stuck, strength-wise, at roughly the same level since finishing my NLP a year+ ago. I've lifted consistently and varied the programming a bit (Hanley's Montana Method stuff, Andy Baker's garage gym warrior, AtS2 hypertrophy, more Hanley stuff), but my e1RMs basically don't move. The one thing I haven't varied is my weight: I've been between 160lbs and 165lbs since finishing NLP. I like my weight and don't really want to gain weight, so if it's unrealistic to gain strength without putting on some weight that's fine. I just want a reality check to make sure my (lack of) results aren't indicative of some stupid programming errors or something.
Everything I've read, everyone I've talked to and every strength coach I've heard talk about it generally says if you aren't fat then strength gains are going to stop if you aren't gaining at least a little weight.
If you've stalled for a year and there's no glaring problems like only getting three hours of sleep at night or only eating 50g of protein a day then maybe it's time to add a pb&j a day to your diet.
James wrote: ↑Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:49 am
If you've stalled for a year and there's no glaring problems like only getting three hours of sleep at night or only eating 50g of protein a day then maybe it's time to add a pb&j a day to your diet.
The only glaring problem I could imagine is if I was making big programming mistakes, but I've varied up the programming enough that I don't think that could really be the (sole) issue. I do love a good pb&j, though, so maybe I can try to slowly bump the weight and see how it affects my strength.
Here's a stupid question: How come most progression systems basically boil down to "make progress to make progress".
The popular ones are mostly add a rep or weight every workout/week/month/training cyckle, but if you're able to add reps or weight you've already made progress. If you can't add a rep or weight then you're not progressively overloading, and progressive overload seems to be one of the most important things for making progress, but if you can progressively overload you've already progressively overloaded/made progress.
