Olympic Press

[LexAnderson]

So with the "Feigenpress" making its rise around town it got me to wondering, should the Press be brought back to the Olympics as the third lift, and if so should it be the strict press of yesteryear, or the more modern press with the allowed layback?

[Hamburgerfan]

Why would they bring it back?

[ShuggyBear]

The press was discontinued because judging it became too difficult, they will never bring it back.

[Shane]

The press was discontinued because judging it became too difficult, they will never bring it back.

It's a shame, because stuff like this is amazing to watch. Almost magical how that huge weight gets up there



..although if you like 'em strict, this dude was a boss!

[KyleSchuant]

The press was discontinued because judging it became too difficult, they will never bring it back.

It wasn't hard to judge, they just chose not to judge it. Much like the "press 3.0".

It's the same reason some PL feds allow drugs, wraps, monolifts, shallow squats and so on: "That lets them lift more weight, and more weight is cool." The problem is that everyone else looks at it and says, "yeah, but that's stupid." Ultimately this leads to the huge dwindling of the sport, as in the equipped-only powerlifting era.

[Cody]

It's the same reason some PL feds allow drugs, wraps, monolifts, shallow squats and so on

I find nothing wrong with the first 3 items on your list.

"Drug tested" is a sham. You know the Olympics are tested by WADA too, right? Remember when they found out that essentially everyone in the Olympics was dirty? It's more fun to watch Larry Wheels, Eric Lilliebridge, etc compete than a bunch of average Joe's anyway.

Knee wraps are literally the only reason I can squat right now... They've been in powerlifting as long as formal contests have existed. Despite the "raw 4 lyf" crowd not knowing any better, knee wraps protect your knee joint.

I had a long debate back in Egypt about the monolift. Being able to walk backwards with weight on your shoulder isn't squatting. Sitting down and standing up with a weight on your shoulders is squatting. Why don't you walk backwards after every rep in a set of 6 on squats? Because squatting is squatting, not walking. And again, outside of people being stupid (for which there's no cure), the monolift increases safety.

Shallow squats? Stupid. Not locking out deadlifts? Stupid. Multiply gear? Stupid. Super wide grip bench? Stupid.

[KyleSchuant]

All fair enough. I will probably need wraps at some point. And if someone has a quarter-tonne or more on their back, honestly I would rather see them in a monolift - with straps, of course. And yes, testing is largely ineffective... but then again, records in untested federations are around 10% higher, which suggests the testing is at the least limiting the consumption of drugs, if not eliminating it.

But it doesn't take away from my point: whatever the reasons you offer for those things being allowed, the real reason they're allowed is that people lift more this way. Which is why Rip has gone from decrying the "excessive layback" that (in part) led to the press being removed from weightlifting, to supporting that same layback; as well as the changes in press from one edition to the next, there's the promotion of lifters doing massive layback, and the changing of the "Strengthlifting" rules from prohibiting to allowing it.

"It's not excessive, there's no lumbar hyperextension, honest." More honest would be, "If it lets you press 315, do whatever the fuck you like and we'll cheer you on."

The non-IPF federations are indifferent to whether or not drug testing is effective. They are indifferent to whether knee wraps are good for the health of your knees. They are indifferent to whether requiring a walkout is part of a "true" squat or not. And so on. What they care about is people putting up bigger numbers.

The IPF, for its part, cares about getting into the Olympics. Which will never happen, but they make their choices and rules and procedures and policies based on that.

The press could be judged, but they chose not to, just as Strengthlifting is choosing not to judge it today. The press won't be added to weightlifting, it'll be an effort just to get it to survive as an Olympic sport.

[Cody]

And yes, testing is largely ineffective... but then again, records in untested federations are around 10% higher, which suggests the testing is at the least limiting the consumption of drugs, if not eliminating it.

It actually makes the playing field less even though, because it's not particularly cheap to take the compounds that consistently beat tests. Although it's all illegal here. I'm on TRT, so I can't lift in any tested fed anyway, and that shit has made a massive improvement in quality of life.

But it doesn't take away from my point: whatever the reasons you offer for those things being allowed, the real reason they're allowed is that people lift more this way.

Yes and no. You get extra kgs out of a belt, tight knee sleeves, and wrist wraps, but they're still allowed in the IPF. Should we lift barefoot and naked? That's a bit of hyperbole, but the sentiment stands. Competitors will always try to leverage the rules for an advantage. IPF still allows stupid wide grip high arch 1" bench press...

The non-IPF federations are indifferent to whether or not drug testing is effective. They are indifferent to whether knee wraps are good for the health of your knees. They are indifferent to whether requiring a walkout is part of a "true" squat or not. And so on. What they care about is people putting up bigger numbers.

The IPF, for its part, cares about getting into the Olympics. Which will never happen, but they make their choices and rules and procedures and policies based on that.

USPA has drug tested, walkouts, knee sleeve only division. They have several divisions, with way more choices than USAPL. That's lifter friendly - if you want to compete "pure" you can, if you want to put up the biggest numbers possible, you can.

They're also not greedy fucks, and their equipment list is something like $50 to get on for a whole vendor rather than $8,000-12,000 PER ITEM for the IPF.

[cwd]

I think the Olympics, as a business, is looking for market share among people who don't routinely watch sports.

The are far more likely to add an e-sports (video game) event, or something involving cooking for time, than they are to add a barbell event.

Hell, they are more likely to drop weightlifting entirely than add the press.

[Manveer]

USPA has drug tested, walkouts, knee sleeve only division. They have several divisions, with way more choices than USAPL. That's lifter friendly - if you want to compete "pure" you can, if you want to put up the biggest numbers possible, you can.

Too many fucking divisions. Also, the 24-hr weigh in is the worst part. If you don't live close to the meet venue, you have to get there a day early so you can weigh in, then sit around? For a local meet?! Usually there is no option for a same-day weigh-in. I couldn't find any meets within about a 4 hour drive that were drug tested with same-day weigh-ins when I looked earlier this year.

Despite all the bullshit with USAPL and IPF, I'd still rather lift in USAPL. If you're a top level lifter, IPF is the only legit choice. Who cares about IPL records?

[Cody]

Too many fucking divisions. Also, the 24-hr weigh in is the worst part. If you don't live close to the meet venue, you have to get there a day early so you can weigh in, then sit around? For a local meet?! Usually there is no option for a same-day weigh-in. I couldn't find any meets within about a 4 hour drive that were drug tested with same-day weigh-ins when I looked earlier this year.

Despite all the bullshit with USAPL and IPF, I'd still rather lift in USAPL. If you're a top level lifter, IPF is the only legit choice. Who cares about IPL records?

I disagree about too many divisions, but totally agree about 24hr weigh in. That's literally the only down side to USPA.

As for top lifters, the only legit choices are Boss of Bosses, Raw Dawgs, US Open, etc. You have to PAY money to lift in USAPL while those big (non-tested) events are paying $10ks-$100ks of prizes. This year's US Open was $210,000 of prizes...

[Manveer]

Big downside though, when you're talking about "lifter-friendly". That's like an extra day off work (or of your time off, anyway) to compete in a local PL meet unless you happen to be very close to one.

Yeah, the IPF should at least pay for flights and hotels for open division lifters to travel to Worlds. They should be able to rustle up some cash for prizes. Seems ridiculous that they can't.

For actual drug free elite lifters then (there are some), at least, IPF is the best fed.

[Cody]

Big downside though, when you're talking about "lifter-friendly". That's like an extra day off work (or of your time off, anyway) to compete in a local PL meet unless you happen to be very close to one.

Totally agree with this.

Yeah, the IPF should at least pay for flights and hotels for open division lifters to travel to Worlds. They should be able to rustle up some cash for prizes. Seems ridiculous that they can't.

For actual drug free elite lifters then (there are some), at least, IPF is the best fed.

Well when there's no prize money to speak of, what does it matter? I get it, I really do, but drug free lifting is an amateur sport. I did lots of sports as a nationally competitive amateur, but they either had literally a single governing body (wrestling) OR they weren't a pain in the ass and would let you compete in any organization you wanted to without revoking your membership, didn't have ludicrous equipment requirements, no sponsorship restrictions, etc (muay thai, distance running).

I still say IPF isn't "lifter friendly" at all. Their biggest boon is the strict judging and the volume of competitions.

[LexAnderson]

Why would they bring it back?

I don't think they will, but it was a question I was pondering. If they don't add powerlifting in the future I would like them to bring back the press just because it would be better to watch than nothing.

[DirtyRed]

Clean&Press is goddamn stupid, because any weight you can press, you can easily clean. All a clean does is require you to be in an AWFUL position to press from.

And they aren't going to bring out a rack just so people can press sensibly.