Frustrated. Still skinny fat - keep bulking or cut?

[lonestar777]

Hi everyone, I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now, and I need someone to talk me down off the ledge. I'm 6'3", currently 207, 47 years old. I've been seriously lifting and watching my diet for a few years. I've made some progress, but I know I still really need to gain more weight and muscle. I started bulking in November at 189 pounds, and now at the end of January I'm up to 207. If I use the Navy body fat test it says I'm around 21% body fat, and just based on how I look that's probably accurate. My waist is up to 38", but my arms, legs, and everywhere else is still skinny. Should I keep bulking at this point, or should I cut down to get leaner and then start bulking again? This is the 2nd time I've made a concerted effort to really gain weight and muscle, and it ended at pretty much the exact same point. I just don't see how this is ever going to achieve meaningful results. It's not 2 steps forward, 1 step back - at this point it's 2 forward and 2 back. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

[dw]

You should cut. Bulking from 21% is just not a good idea, you will feel miserable, look bad, worsen your health, and spend ages cutting back down.

In general hypertrophy is a slow process for people that are not genetically gifted. That's just how it goes. If you're more concerned with aesthetics that should influence your programming, but even then...

[mettkeks]

You should cut. Bulking from 21% is just not a good idea, you will feel miserable, look bad, worsen your health, and spend ages cutting back down.

In general hypertrophy is a slow process for people that are not genetically gifted. That's just how it goes. If you're more concerned with aesthetics that should influence your programming, but even then...

This 100%. I'll add that staying leaner will make your shoulders and arms look bigger, or at least more proportionate, from a visual aspect.

@lonestar777 Hypertrophie is a slow progress, so slow that visual changes from one phase to another can be very subtle. You gained 18lbs in 3 months? Gaining 10% of BW in such a short time is not good, especially at your age.

I agree with @dw, Cut back down to your starting weight (or a weight you feel comfortable at) and then gain those 18lbs over the next 8-10 months. 1% of BW-gain per month is a reasonable rate of gain. You'll be in a big enough surplus to grow muscle while taking enough time to actually accumulate an amount that will be noticeable before you need another cut.

[Wilhelm]

You are getting older.
At some point, cutting and bulking is no faster than maintaining in a range, eating a little more as needed, a little less on other days, staying pretty much the same weight.

I'm 59, and for sure i will never do a major cut again.
It is literally a waste of my time.

You may not be there yet, but we become more anabolically resistant as we age.

Eat well and train hard.

[lonestar777]

You gained 18lbs in 3 months? Gaining 10% of BW in such a short time is not good, especially at your age.

Yeah, I was shooting for a pound a week.

You are getting older.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm just getting impatient and facing the reality that with my genetics, age, etc. I may never be as "swole" as I want to be.

I was watching one of the youtube videos of Alan Thrall where he talks about the process of how he gained a bunch of weight, and eventually how he leaned out. He mentioned that he wouldn't recommend gaining as much as he did, and doing more of the bulks and cuts never getting that heavy. I've seen other people saying the same thing. I'm just not sure that anyone who every truly gained a significant amount of muscle mass naturally ever did the slow and steady approach. What's the other saying about how you can't carve the Incredible Hulk out of Paris Hilton?

[dw]

You gained 18lbs in 3 months? Gaining 10% of BW in such a short time is not good, especially at your age.

Yeah, I was shooting for a pound a week.

You are getting older.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm just getting impatient and facing the reality that with my genetics, age, etc. I may never be as "swole" as I want to be.

I was watching one of the youtube videos of Alan Thrall where he talks about the process of how he gained a bunch of weight, and eventually how he leaned out. He mentioned that he wouldn't recommend gaining as much as he did, and doing more of the bulks and cuts never getting that heavy. I've seen other people saying the same thing. I'm just not sure that anyone who every truly gained a significant amount of muscle mass naturally ever did the slow and steady approach. What's the other saying about how you can't carve the Incredible Hulk out of Paris Hilton?

According to his old log (there's a link on this forum somewhere), Austin Baraki went from something like 185 to 195 over 3 years of intentional bulking. (That's my best recollection, hopefully I'm not too far off.)

I think the mindset necessary for this is actually easier for someone primarily concerned with aesthetics as opposed to strength, because the goal is presumably to be somewhat lean at some end point in the future. The more aggressively you bulk the longer you're going to have to diet and the more time you will spend overweight.

My current plan is to try to never be more than one month of cutting away from what I consider to be appropriately lean. Not sure if I'll stick with it but it sounds good on paper.

[alek]

Hi everyone, I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now, and I need someone to talk me down off the ledge. I'm 6'3", currently 207, 47 years old. I've been seriously lifting and watching my diet for a few years. I've made some progress, but I know I still really need to gain more weight and muscle. I started bulking in November at 189 pounds, and now at the end of January I'm up to 207. If I use the Navy body fat test it says I'm around 21% body fat, and just based on how I look that's probably accurate. My waist is up to 38", but my arms, legs, and everywhere else is still skinny. Should I keep bulking at this point, or should I cut down to get leaner and then start bulking again? This is the 2nd time I've made a concerted effort to really gain weight and muscle, and it ended at pretty much the exact same point. I just don't see how this is ever going to achieve meaningful results. It's not 2 steps forward, 1 step back - at this point it's 2 forward and 2 back. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

What does your training look like?

I’d also say to stop bulking, but as far as training goes, I suggest you bro it up (with a barbell—you train at home right?) for a few months.

[Wilhelm]

Omar finally striking a good balance with his opening banter.
I didn't have to skip ahead this time.

There's another new 'cast out there with Trexler and Israetel discussing p ratio and stuff.
Saw it linked on SBS FB page.

[lonestar777]

Hi everyone, I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now, and I need someone to talk me down off the ledge. I'm 6'3", currently 207, 47 years old. I've been seriously lifting and watching my diet for a few years. I've made some progress, but I know I still really need to gain more weight and muscle. I started bulking in November at 189 pounds, and now at the end of January I'm up to 207. If I use the Navy body fat test it says I'm around 21% body fat, and just based on how I look that's probably accurate. My waist is up to 38", but my arms, legs, and everywhere else is still skinny. Should I keep bulking at this point, or should I cut down to get leaner and then start bulking again? This is the 2nd time I've made a concerted effort to really gain weight and muscle, and it ended at pretty much the exact same point. I just don't see how this is ever going to achieve meaningful results. It's not 2 steps forward, 1 step back - at this point it's 2 forward and 2 back. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

What does your training look like?

I’d also say to stop bulking, but as far as training goes, I suggest you bro it up (with a barbell—you train at home right?) for a few months.

I had done the BBM Hypertrophy template, then started ATS Hypertrophy. I had to take a few months off while we moved houses, so I'm doing the ATS LP template right now, and then I plan on going back to ATS Hypertrophy. I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder. It's more that I know I need more muscle to be as strong as possible, and I want to get as strong as possible before I get too old. I know it gets harder to build and retain muscle the older you get, so I want to have as big a base as possible.

[alek]

I had done the BBM Hypertrophy template, then started ATS Hypertrophy. I had to take a few months off while we moved houses, so I'm doing the ATS LP template right now, and then I plan on going back to ATS Hypertrophy. I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder. It's more that I know I need more muscle to be as strong as possible, and I want to get as strong as possible before I get too old. I know it gets harder to build and retain muscle the older you get, so I want to have as big a base as possible.

No worries. I understand. I too was once skinny-fat even after lifting for a couple years. I could squat 405 and deadlift 405, but my umbilicus measurement was damn close, if not greater, than my chest measurement. My deadlift single of 465 in November 2018 may still be in my log somewhere. You'll see.

Here you go.Show

In spring of 2019, I started doing a hvlf routine with bench, eventually hiring Hanley to do my bench programming. It wasn't until then that I saw gainz in the chesticles. It could be boiled down to doing a bunch of sets of few reps over many sessions with weights that were almost too easy--sets of 5's and 7's with 65 to 70%. That really worked for pec hypertrophy. I also pr'd my bench by 30 pounds during my time with Hanley.

After getting to it after covid, I decided to bulk--I had lost about 10-12 pounds from the layoff--and I went with a similar approach to upper back/shoulder/arm work. I essentially do all that kinda stuff in a rep scheme of 7 sets of 7 reps each. So, barbell rows, lat pulldown, upright row, facepulls, triceps pushdown, etc. all get done that way. I increase weight when all 7 sets are easy. Like rpe 6 easy. That has also really worked on filling out my shoulders, arms, and back while not keeping me from doing the regular barbell work.

So if you don't want to focus solely on some bro stuff, I suggest doing what bro stuff you can work in at least until you're happy with your physique. Now, my chest measurement is around 42" while my umbilicus is around 35.5".

[lonestar777]

Hell yes, @alek, nice lift! Those sound like some solid results from Hanley's programming. I've got a ways to go back on the LP before I'm ready to switch, but I definitely start to investigate that.

[alek]

Hell yes, alek, nice lift! Those sound like some solid results from Hanley's programming. I've got a ways to go back on the LP before I'm ready to switch, but I definitely start to investigate that.

Thanks!

I’d say not to stick with lp for too long. I’d say to move to an autoregulated plan/scheme/template/whatever sooner rather than later, but that’s minutiae. Good luck with the physique change!

[sean0]

I had done the BBM Hypertrophy template, then started ATS Hypertrophy. I had to take a few months off while we moved houses, so I'm doing the ATS LP template right now, and then I plan on going back to ATS Hypertrophy. I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder. It's more that I know I need more muscle to be as strong as possible, and I want to get as strong as possible before I get too old. I know it gets harder to build and retain muscle the older you get, so I want to have as big a base as possible.

How are you finding the ATS LP? I haven't found anyone else who is doing it. I've been on it for 4 weeks now after a very short SS LP after a longish layoff. I've got a log on here - mostly finding it good, no grinding and strength definitely trending back up to previous levels quickly. How long do you think you'll run it for?

[lonestar777]

How are you finding the ATS LP? I haven't found anyone else who is doing it. I've been on it for 4 weeks now after a very short SS LP after a longish layoff. I've got a log on here - mostly finding it good, no grinding and strength definitely trending back up to previous levels quickly. How long do you think you'll run it for?

I like it quite a bit! It's got a little bit more variation than something like the SSNLP, different rep ranges, etc. I'm just finishing up week 5. I started really conservatively. Now that I'm a bit older I try and ease into things more. So it's been pretty easy so far but noticeably harder this week. I'm guessing I have maybe 3 more weeks on it before it gets much harder. I have cut down on calories this week as well, and I've been a little more sore.

I really like the ATS style of working out, but I haven't done one long enough to see if I really make progress or not. Based on other posts I may look at some Hanley/Montana Method programming next.

[sean0]

I like it quite a bit! It's got a little bit more variation than something like the SSNLP, different rep ranges, etc. I'm just finishing up week 5. I started really conservatively. Now that I'm a bit older I try and ease into things more. So it's been pretty easy so far but noticeably harder this week. I'm guessing I have maybe 3 more weeks on it before it gets much harder. I have cut down on calories this week as well, and I've been a little more sore.

I really like the ATS style of working out, but I haven't done one long enough to see if I really make progress or not. Based on other posts I may look at some Hanley/Montana Method programming next.

Probably at the same stage here, starting to get challenging just this past week. I think I've probably got 2 more weeks before moving on. Good luck with it! I've got nothing useful to add on the nutrition side I'm afraid.

[Wayne]

Hi everyone, I'm feeling pretty frustrated right now, and I need someone to talk me down off the ledge. I'm 6'3", currently 207, 47 years old. I've been seriously lifting and watching my diet for a few years. I've made some progress, but I know I still really need to gain more weight and muscle. I started bulking in November at 189 pounds, and now at the end of January I'm up to 207. If I use the Navy body fat test it says I'm around 21% body fat, and just based on how I look that's probably accurate. My waist is up to 38", but my arms, legs, and everywhere else is still skinny. Should I keep bulking at this point, or should I cut down to get leaner and then start bulking again? This is the 2nd time I've made a concerted effort to really gain weight and muscle, and it ended at pretty much the exact same point. I just don't see how this is ever going to achieve meaningful results. It's not 2 steps forward, 1 step back - at this point it's 2 forward and 2 back. I'm open to any and all suggestions.

OP, I have been in a very similar situation. I chose to bulk up from a relatively high BF percentage and even enlisted BBM nutrition coaching to help.

Subsequently I’ve spent the past couple of years slowly cutting/maintaining/occasional mini-bulk getting my waist from 38-39” to 30-31”. In the process I have dropped a significant amount of weight overall and look much better.

What this summary misses out is how crap it feels to be knocking in the hours in the gym and look to the outside world like an unfit individual.

My advice to my past self would be to cut significantly first. Dropping fat will make you much happier with your appearance and decent programming should help you gain or maintain muscle where possible and - depending how you program now - will make training exciting and interesting again.

I saw someone else on here say they never wanted to be more than a month (or similar) from being fully “cut”. That’s where I’m hoping to get to eventually.

TLDR - Get plenty work on your chest, shoulders and arms and cut fat.