Technique Resources

[GregoryDomnin]

Lets say you know of a good technique manual for the lifts, but you don't want the author to make any money because he called someone he thought was a woman on the internet a c***t. Or because he said "Look at what you made me do" while he was creating "Bad Blood" between the two of you while acting like he's "15."

What would recommend instead?

[chromoly]

Now you could.... get a less than legal copy of said book. Or buy it used somewhere, if you have qualms about that.

I haven't encountered such a good technique manual as said book before. I'm not too familiar with the literature, but to my knowledge, I'm not sure anything exists....? Maybe someone else knows something.

[Chebass88]

Greg Everett's book is pretty thorough when it comes to Olympic lifting.

[jwagner]

Send them here: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/guides/

A little more rigorous treatment than the book by the geologist anyway.

[Chebass88]

Why don't you add it to the thread of links?

[OCG]

Send them here: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/guides/

A little more rigorous treatment than the book by the geologist anyway.

Does the deadlift guide still say the quads don't do anything in the lift?

EDIT: Yep. Here, have some gems.

Most importantly for the deadlift, hip and knee flexion and extension are defined by the sagittal plane relative to the femur. Imagine a plane that cuts your femur in half front to back and top to bottom.

There isn't a saggital plane of any bone. There is only one saggital plane. The very definition of the saggital plane is that it runs through the saggital suture, on top of your head.

The external moment arm for knee extension – the front-to-back distance between the system center of mass (roughly over the middle of your foot) and the knee joint – is always going to be pretty small because your knees simply can’t track forward very far.

If you deadlift with perfectly vertical shins, knee extension demands will be lower than they would be if your knees started over the bar or slightly in front of the bar, but the knee extension demands will be pretty low regardless.

The main role of the quads in the conventional deadlift is simply to anchor the tibia in place and keep the knee extending to counter the contraction of the hamstrings. In all likelihood, the hamstrings themselves provide more resistance for the quads in the conventional deadlift than the weight itself does.

...The moment around the knee is calculated very basically, from the hip to the knee. In the case of a deadlift, it's about the same as a half squat. Think about it, we're set up for a deadlift, now we put the bar on the back. What position are we in? A half squat, which I'm sure Greg would agree uses the quads perfectly fine. What's funny is that they give a perfectly decent explanation of a moment arm, them proceed not to use it.

Moment is force applied about an axis

So, in this case, when the knee extends, the hip is rotated around the knee via the femur. The bar simply isn't involved because, get this, the bar isn't rotating about the knee, and the knee isn't rotating around the bar.

[jwagner]

I don't see how these shortcomings are any worse than other "models" we know of presented by an aging geologist who has reverted to fits and tantrums that make my toddler look mature.

And I'm not sure that the quads statement is that far off. Of course, they anchor the tibia in place by opening the knee angle to counter the opening of the hip angle by the hamstrings and glutes. But even in a half squat, I think the primary movers are the hip extensors. That doesn't mean the quads aren't involved, just less so than the hamstrings and the glutes (especially near the top of the movement).

More importantly, at least we are free to discuss it here without fear of reprisal.

[Murelli]

I don't see how these shortcomings are any worse than other "models" we know of presented by an aging geologist who has reverted to fits and tantrums that make my toddler look mature.

And I'm not sure that the quads statement is that far off. Of course, they anchor the tibia in place by opening the knee angle to counter the opening of the hip angle by the hamstrings and glutes. But even in a half squat, I think the primary movers are the hip extensors. That doesn't mean the quads aren't involved, just less so than the hamstrings and the glutes (especially near the top of the movement).

More importantly, at least we are free to discuss it here without fear of reprisal.

Where both authors get short is that the quad involvement is deeply affected by anthropometry. If the knee angle opens during the lift and contributes do vertical displacement of the bar, the quads share the load. How much? Depends on how much your knees close in the deadlift. The problem with simplifying your analysis is that it's easy to over-simplify, especially if you don't have a good mechanics background (someone pay Savs to write a book).

[jwagner]

Where both authors get short is that the quad involvement is deeply affected by anthropometry. If the knee angle opens during the lift and contributes do vertical displacement of the bar, the quads share the load. How much? Depends on how much your knees close in the deadlift. The problem with simplifying your analysis is that it's easy to over-simplify, especially if you don't have a good mechanics background (someone pay Savs to write a book).

I agree with this. That said, humans don't think in muscle groups, so I think it gets close enough for anyone who is wanting to learn about technique. But, it would be interesting if a physicist, mechanical engineer, physiologist and biologist all got together to give us the analysis and models we (the STEM community lifters and pedants) really want. Of course the book would have to be a couple hundred bucks and print on demand to be worth it for anyone since I suspect the actual audience would be small.

[GregoryDomnin]

Mod's I screwed up. Should this be moved to the Technique Forum?

I am just looking for other resources in general for others. I already have said book by the geologist with the emotional strength of a snowflake.